Web3 Strategy, Startup Scaling & Operational Excellence with James Bourque

[00:00:00] Charlie: Welcome to this episode of the what the three [00:00:05] podcast, the podcast where we learn with you emerging technology founders, how to go from zero to [00:00:10] one. This episode, we’re going to talk about strategy and operations, strategic considerations [00:00:15] as a baseline for success, planning, and execution. I’m quite excited for [00:00:20] this episode because this is basically our business.

[00:00:22] Charlie: So we found the best that we could in the market and James, [00:00:25] I want to tell you a little bit about him now. So today we are thrilled to [00:00:30] introduce James Bryant Borque, CEO and co founder of Intu, a trailblazer in [00:00:35] building Web3 infrastructure. Hailing from the San Francisco Bay Area and now [00:00:40] based in Paris.

[00:00:41] Charlie: James has a rich background in business operations and a passion for cryptography. [00:00:45] Before founding Intu, he led innovative projects at Guera. co, [00:00:50] focusing on developing key Web3 protocols. James has worked for Kraft Ventures [00:00:55] under David Sachs before building Intu at Station F’s founders program.

[00:00:59] Charlie: [00:01:00] Eventually leading the Web3 community and guilt changes here today to share his unique [00:01:05] insights into the evolving world of Web3, get ready for an enlightening discussion. Yeah, [00:01:10] welcome.

[00:01:10] James: What’s up, Charlie? What’s up, Thomas?

[00:01:13] Thomas: We’re very glad that [00:01:15] you’re here, man. We’re very glad that you’re here.

[00:01:17] Thomas: And I, this is one of the first things I [00:01:20] always ask because you have a rich Web2 background, right? Web2 what was that catalyst moment? What [00:01:25] was that rabbit hole for you? Web2 where you were like, well, Web3, this is something I want to, [00:01:30] I want to do something. Or actually I want to build a company. And I mean, there’s every guest [00:01:35] that we spoke to so far has that.

[00:01:37] Thomas: So what, what, what was your catalyst moment?

[00:01:39] James: I’ll [00:01:40] kind of start at the beginning and say that I, I don’t have a strong Web2 background. And I [00:01:45] think actually the FOMO of not having a strong Web2 background was really what [00:01:50] Help me jump like right into Web3, the minute I heard about it, Web3 obviously [00:01:55] growing up in California and Northern California, Silicon Valley.

[00:01:58] James: I didn’t realize how [00:02:00] special of a place that was in the nineties and how much tech was around me. I took it for [00:02:05] granted, right? The fact that I was building a computer so I could play doom when I was like [00:02:10] nine years old or whatever. Web3 That’s not an experience that everybody had. And I really [00:02:15] felt when the cloud came around, right?

[00:02:17] James: When SAS came around, I remember the first time I heard that someone was going to [00:02:20] do SAS and I go, that’s stupid. Why would someone pay every month for something they could have bought once? [00:02:25] Like that doesn’t make any sense. And so I kind of missed it. And then I obviously saw [00:02:30] everything happen with cloud.

[00:02:31] James: And right now we have sales horse tower downtown. And, [00:02:35] Web3 And yeah, so like, I totally missed it. So like the, really the, I mean, if you want to boil it down, the [00:02:40] catalyst for jumping into Web3 was I missWeb2two, the FOMO [00:02:45] was overwhelming. Web3 so I’ve always had that interest, you know, obviously there’s, there’s [00:02:50] some personal components to it.

[00:02:51] James: I’ve, I’ve had some concerns over data privacy. I’ve had my [00:02:55] identity stolen more times that I can count, right. I’ve been subject to these hacks, you know, whatever, [00:03:00] and kind of between working at craft ventures and seeing. The [00:03:05] team and the community start really getting into, I mean, what was back then, just blockchain, [00:03:10] right?

[00:03:10] James: Crypto. It wasn’t even web 3. Web3 I started paying attention. It’s [00:03:15] like, Oh, this is something that people that are more successful, more intelligent than I am, are [00:03:20] interested in. I should probably try and learn. I’m in a good place to learn. This is San Francisco. [00:03:25] Web3 the really like, Ooh, I need to do this moment was when I found out about Ethereum.[00:03:30]

[00:03:30] James: Right? Like Bitcoin was cool. I’ve ignored it a few times, right? I think everyone on this podcast has [00:03:35] probably said that I should have bought it earlier. I knew about it. I ignored it. Web3 but with [00:03:40] EthereWeb3 it was this idea of a global computer, this idea of commoditizing the [00:03:45] infrastructure and, and really offering that as a solution [00:03:50] to all of the problems that stem from the fact that we have privatized [00:03:55] infrastructure for the internet.

[00:03:56] James: Today, right in Web2. Web3 and so it didn’t [00:04:00] take long, right? We started going to meetups. I started making friends I met my co founder steven. [00:04:05] We ended up being neighbors incidentally Web3 or coincidentally, Web3 [00:04:10] and yeah by 2017 we were meeting on a regular basis to [00:04:15] talk and learn and teach each other about crypto.

[00:04:17] James: I have Notes about ideas that I had even [00:04:20] back then. I’m like, that would have never worked. This clearly was you not understanding this, but by [00:04:25] 2019 we had tried to build enough. We had done enough hackathons that I thought, Hey, this [00:04:30] is, I think this is next. I think this is really what I have kind of what I want my next [00:04:35] step to be.

[00:04:36] James: Web3 I had always. More or less been an [00:04:40] entrepreneur. Like I always liked working for myself. I always preferred it. Web3 I’ve worked for other [00:04:45] people largely because it’s a great way to learn. Web3 and I [00:04:50] straight out of college, I tried to import to export tequila from Mexico to Europe and [00:04:55] quickly learned that I was not in a position to export tequila from Mexico to Europe.

[00:04:59] James: Web3 [00:05:00] and immediately started trying to, okay, I’m not ready to do my own thing. I need to go [00:05:05] learn from someone else. Right. So then I started working for other people. Web3 but you know, after [00:05:10] four or five years of working for other people for the second or third time in my life, right. Web3, just, [00:05:15] it made perfect sense.

[00:05:16] Thomas: So those skills that you, you basically took up everything before [00:05:20] Web3, like how did that transition to Web3?

[00:05:23] James: A lot of it didn’t. [00:05:25] Web3 but I will say this, I’ve, I’ve changed industry a lot. [00:05:30] Web3 you know, funny enough, like. Coming to Europe, I think it’s one of the most [00:05:35] surprising things that, Web2 one of the things that surprises people the most, Web2 when they meet [00:05:40] me is, you know, they go, how are you in Web3?

[00:05:42] James: What did you study? I go, I studied [00:05:45] history and economics. Okay, how does that apply to Web3? It doesn’t. Okay, so then what did you do [00:05:50] professionally? Well, I, Web2 Used to export tequila. I used to work for a restaurant group. I used to [00:05:55] own a restaurant. I used to do commercial real estate development. Like I used to do venture capital and they go, [00:06:00] how does any of that transfer into Web3?

[00:06:03] James: Web3 what you learn [00:06:05] from jumping industries so many times is kind of the, the [00:06:10] universal themes that Just comes from running an organization from running a business. Web3 [00:06:15] and from understanding that, Web3 obviously there’s, there’s some [00:06:20] ramp up time, right? Like trying to manage a construction project [00:06:25] after only having managed, you know, large scale hospitality type stuff it’s, [00:06:30] Hey, you’re, you’re not, I, I’m an electrician.

[00:06:32] James: You’re not an electrician. You can’t manage me. Right. And [00:06:35] then little by little you start learning from them. That’s kind of, Web3 I think that was kind of the, I’ve [00:06:40] kind of standardized what that process is for me. Right. So you, you learn from the experts, you learn that [00:06:45] can, you have them teach you, you ask the right questions and then you get to a point where you can start actually [00:06:50] engaging them creatively and making those wheels turn.

[00:06:53] James: And by the time you’re ready to [00:06:55] first teach other people, Web2 what their [00:07:00] skill set is, at least. interactively. Web3 and then second, you can [00:07:05] start sequencing and scheduling their work. Like that makes a very big [00:07:10] difference. Web3 right. And so, Web3 the first time I worked in a kitchen, I thought I was going to be a [00:07:15] marketing manager.

[00:07:16] James: They put me in a chef’s coat and had me quartering chickens and washing dishes for four [00:07:20] weeks. Right. Thank you. Nvidia’s employee cafe. Here we are. Web3 but what [00:07:25] it did was it got me to a position where I understood what their workflow was, how they [00:07:30] operated, how much time they needed, what was, what were the actual requirements for them to succeed, which [00:07:35] then allows you to.

[00:07:36] James: To manage. Web3 so yeah, I mean, [00:07:40] communication and learning and curiosity, I think are the two things that you get from jumping between all [00:07:45] these industries so often.

[00:07:46] Thomas: I would almost say adaptability as well, because you, you, since you jump, [00:07:50] you’re, you’re a chameleon that, yeah, kind of, yeah, you get all that influx.

[00:07:54] Thomas: So you just kind of [00:07:55] restructure. That’s okay. What’s important. How does it work? And you, there’s enough than it, the [00:08:00] processing of the cell as an expertise. Right.

[00:08:03] James: The, Web2 I did not take [00:08:05] the straight and narrow path here. Let’s put it that way. Web2 this is,

[00:08:08] Charlie: I feel like you and [00:08:10] every other guest we’ve ever had has been like, it’s not a straight line, you know, [00:08:15] about Web3, like everyone’s got a story, everyone’s like done.[00:08:20]

[00:08:21] Thomas: And then you use, you’re like, all right, you know what, I’m build a [00:08:25] company. So you’re found into, it’s like, how, how did that start? Like, well, how would the early days of into [00:08:30] like, because how old is into right now?

[00:08:32] James: So Intu technically started [00:08:35] February of 2022, Web3 just at the end of that bull [00:08:40] market. But, but Intu really started with a project that [00:08:45] my, you know, CTO, Stephen and myself, we started this Project called where g u [00:08:50] e r dot co.

[00:08:51] James: Web3 and we had the good [00:08:55] fortune of kicking that off in December of 2019, [00:09:00] which means that fundraising by March of [00:09:05] 2020 was a non starter. Web3 and so there was that good, like year and a half, [00:09:10] two years where we were trying to do this thing. We were trying to. [00:09:15] Basically, I mean, I was working full time. Steven was preparing to come into [00:09:20] Web3 full time.

[00:09:21] James: And our, our thesis was the [00:09:25] infrastructure for Web3 isn’t there, right? This promise of the global [00:09:30] computer commoditized infrastructure just isn’t there. We’re missing [00:09:35] access management. We’re missing identity. We’re missing encryption. We were so dependent [00:09:40] on what had come before that we were That the dream, it just, we couldn’t realize it.

[00:09:44] James: And so [00:09:45] we tried starting to build that. And, Web3 That led me to [00:09:50] start, I don’t know, auditing cryptography courses and going to meetups that were very [00:09:55] mathematically heavy. Practical mathematics is not my strong [00:10:00] point. I’ve since become much better at theoretical mathematics. I can read white papers and understand them.

[00:10:04] James: [00:10:05] Don’t ask me to actually do the problems because we won’t get anywhere. But [00:10:10] through that experience with Guare, Web2 we were approached to, Web2 To [00:10:15] solve private key storage for validators as a service. It was a [00:10:20] very, very specific problem, Web3 because right, you have infrastructure [00:10:25] companies, gateway companies that want to provide this as a service for [00:10:30] people that have a theorem, but don’t want to manage their own equipment.

[00:10:33] James: Web3 but the hesitation, [00:10:35] obviously one of the major, the major limitations for that was, well, now I have to trust you completely with [00:10:40] which is otherwise a large sum of money. And so at that point, we’ve been [00:10:45] working a lot with very specific security tech, like trusted [00:10:50] execution environments. Web3 and we came up with this idea.

[00:10:53] James: And the more research that we [00:10:55] did, the more we realized that, hey, this isn’t just a problem for Web3 [00:11:00] This very niche thing, there’s actually kind of a global need for this, that [00:11:05] accounts and identity and addressing and private key management, Web2 in [00:11:10] Web3 is it’s very primitive, right? It’s very antiquated.

[00:11:14] James: It doesn’t [00:11:15] meet the expectations that a normal human being would have coming to what the new [00:11:20] internet is, right? I should be able to lose my password, right? That that’s a [00:11:25] normal thing. I am human. I will make mistakes. Web2 and so that was really [00:11:30] the impetus of Intu, Web2 was trying to, like, understanding that there was this [00:11:35] problem that Web3 was not very human friendly, and then taking this expertise [00:11:40] that we had developed for the past several years, working on things like infrastructure and encryption, [00:11:45] Web3 and then realizing that we had a pretty good solution for it, Web3 [00:11:50] challenging, absolutely, right?

[00:11:52] James: We spent a good year, year and a half in research [00:11:55] and development, Web3 Web3 But we made it right. We did it. [00:12:00]

[00:12:00] Thomas: That’s a very good point. I think, right. Like, you know, Web2 it’s, it’s [00:12:05] one of the challenges. I think that I think the first breakthrough is like, you’re realizing, oh, should I actually have [00:12:10] something? But I think, you know, what I’ve done for the last couple of years, I have something that I can actually productize, [00:12:15] which makes sense.

[00:12:16] Thomas: Web3 At least that’s, that’s why you, [00:12:20]

[00:12:20] James: I’m laughing because I think you’re actually a step ahead of where I was back then. Like we had a [00:12:25] solution to a problem from a technical standpoint and we hadn’t really considered how to turn it into a [00:12:30] product. Right. And then that was, that was a challenge in and of itself.

[00:12:33] James: Web3 but yeah, [00:12:35] advice for, for younger me would have been figure that out earlier. [00:12:40] Right.

[00:12:41] Thomas: It’s a big issue that we’ve seen, like, you know, this is not, Web2 [00:12:45] I think every, every startup that I’m talking to from a tech perspective, they, they [00:12:50] have amazing solutions to problems that either not yet exist or are not existing.

[00:12:54] Thomas: [00:12:55] Right. Web3 which is in and of itself a challenge. It doesn’t mean you’re wrong. And [00:13:00] it means that you didn’t find your product market fit. And sometimes there is no product market fit, [00:13:05] which can be A massive problem, Web3 finding it out after three years of funding and, [00:13:10] Web2 doing R and D, you know, like we’ve all heard the stories, but to your point, right?[00:13:15]

[00:13:15] Thomas: Web3 you did about two years of R and D development. I think that was a [00:13:20] challenge on itself. Like, can you tell us a little bit about that time? Web2 what kind of [00:13:25] challenges you were facing, but also the kind of breakthroughs, right? Because those, those [00:13:30] In, from our perspective, it’s always, you go super deep, but then the breakthroughs generally are also [00:13:35] a lot bigger because you spend so much time overcoming these challenges.[00:13:40]

[00:13:40] James: Web3 yeah, I mean, so, I mean, obviously we, we had [00:13:45] some, some very exciting. Tech breakthroughs, I [00:13:50] think for us, Web3 being able to write so effectively what we’re doing, we’re [00:13:55] taking existing technology, existing math. I don’t want to go too deep into it on this podcast because [00:14:00] that’s not the audience, but we’re taking things that were already out there, things that were already proven things that [00:14:05] larger, better funded companies were already using.

[00:14:09] James: But we’re doing it [00:14:10] in like this hybrid model, right? Where they were dependent on Web 2 infrastructure in [00:14:15] order to provide a Web 3 service. Web3 and so we, we have these [00:14:20] kind of guiding principles that this product should be able to exist [00:14:25] in the absence of our organization, right? And that we wanted this to be actually [00:14:30] decentralized.

[00:14:31] James: And, and that was really the innovation I think that we brought to the community and that what [00:14:35] makes into special, Web3 is that it, If into [00:14:40] disappeared tomorrow, your products, the accounts that you created using our [00:14:45] technology will continue to work. Web3 and so it was, it was very principled, maybe at times [00:14:50] too principled, Web3 kind of going through that.

[00:14:53] James: We, you know, occasionally [00:14:55] did. Cut some corners like we had an API for a little bit just so that people could [00:15:00] start building and start kind of feeling our way through that product market fit. [00:15:05] Web3 but then eventually knew that we had to come back. We knew that it wouldn’t work. We knew that we didn’t want [00:15:10] to offer an API.

[00:15:11] James: We knew that we didn’t want to have to rent infrastructure from, right? One of these [00:15:15] big cloud companies. Web3 the, I think the, the [00:15:20] biggest Maybe the most exciting breakthrough in all of this [00:15:25] was learning to communicate with the team, right? Taking these very abstract [00:15:30] ideas and taking a team of very well educated, very [00:15:35] smart people and getting them to think outside of the box.

[00:15:39] James: Oh [00:15:40] no, you can’t do this because the math works this way. I’m like, there has to be a way that we can do this. What if we [00:15:45] just take this piece from over here and this piece from over there and then we piece it together? Will that work? And then. [00:15:50] The answer at first was always no, and then we get out a whiteboard, we kind of talk through it, [00:15:55] communicate, document it, keep iterating on it, and then eventually they’re like, oh, [00:16:00] okay, no, we actually can do it this way.

[00:16:02] James: I never thought of doing it this way. This is a new thing. [00:16:05] And you know, the first couple of times that was super exciting, but it got to a point where this was a habit. [00:16:10] It’s like, okay, this is, this is the goal. This is what we’re trying to do. [00:16:15] Let’s go in a room. Let’s get a whiteboard out. Let’s figure this out.

[00:16:18] James: And sometimes it took a day, sometimes took a [00:16:20] week, sometimes took a month, but we got there. And I think, you know, as an organization, that was [00:16:25] really our strength was that, you know, things that were otherwise Not possible. We were able [00:16:30] to, you know, do, Web3 in the course of a year, year and a half. It was [00:16:35] great.

[00:16:35] Thomas: Yeah, that’s, that’s amazing. It’s your foster, Web3 [00:16:40] Web2 research and development, but also I think a failing upward culture within [00:16:45] a company, which adds so much value because there’s no ego. Right. It’s like, okay, let’s figure this [00:16:50] out. It’s like, no, is no is sometimes the answer, but let’s first figure out if there’s no other roads.

[00:16:54] Thomas: [00:16:55] Then no, right. And then sometimes you still land on like, no, it’s literally not [00:17:00] possible. Web2 but, but to your point, right. I think it’s very, if you give [00:17:05] people the opportunity and the motivation, the perspective, then, Web3 no, it’s just [00:17:10] one of the 50 options that you have. Web3 as long as you’re willing to look past.

[00:17:14] Thomas: What [00:17:15] is conventional?

[00:17:16] James: Yeah. I, I mean, I will say this. We, we [00:17:20] never really found something that we ultimately decided was impossible. It’s just, we had to change [00:17:25] our assumptions, right? We eventually got there. Web3 some of them [00:17:30] took longer than others, but yeah, impossible. It just means you’re not looking at it the right way, or you’re assuming that something is [00:17:35] true that maybe it doesn’t have to be, but you change the context.

[00:17:37] James: Right.

[00:17:39] Thomas: [00:17:40] Absolutely. So last anecdote before we, we hit into, Web2 your advice, [00:17:45] like top 10 advice, Web3 You know, as a founder, hardship, it’s hardship and [00:17:50] innovation, right? Like I think they’re very, Web3 if you, if you’re, if you’re an [00:17:55] innovator, hardship is around you, right? Challenges are around you. Web3 [00:18:00] do you have any personal perspectives or stories or anecdotes around?[00:18:05]

[00:18:05] Thomas: Well, I’ll tell you personal challenges and how that added [00:18:10] value or actually change your perspective to leadership and innovation.

[00:18:14] James: I’m [00:18:15] a Catholic man. I was born for suffering. This is my life.[00:18:20]

[00:18:22] Thomas: That’s, that’s the first hardship. Let’s talk about the second. [00:18:25]

[00:18:26] James: I came into this world for hardship. [00:18:30] No, I mean, I, I have a, I have a track record of not necessarily making things easy for [00:18:35] myself. Web3 I, I like. I like where I am today. And, and I will say [00:18:40] that I am better for those choices that I’ve made. Web3 sometimes in the, in the short term [00:18:45] doesn’t feel that way, but looking back, it’s like, I, I’m good.

[00:18:48] James: Web3 I think [00:18:50] kind of generally speaking, I talked a lot about jumping industries and the, the [00:18:55] first few times that I did that, that was, that was hard. [00:19:00] Web3 right. It was, It was hard because I needed to connect with a new [00:19:05] group of people, right? I couldn’t bring a lot of that reputation, a lot of that community, and a [00:19:10] lot of that expertise that I had been.

[00:19:12] James: You know, garnering for, you know, [00:19:15] years before in another space to this new thing that I wanted to do, [00:19:20] Web3 a lot of times that meant either one of two things, [00:19:25] like you spent most of your time trying to convince people that you actually had a skill set that was usable for [00:19:30] them, right? Like, I grew up in Silicon Valley and I worked for restaurant groups for eight [00:19:35] years.

[00:19:35] James: I should be able to work at Uber Eats type of thing. But then getting on a [00:19:40] phone call or submitting a resume to someone like Uber Eats and they’re like, Oh, you [00:19:45] have no relevant experience. Why would we ever consider you as an applicant? [00:19:50] Web3 the, the other side of that would be. Learning to [00:19:55] take personal responsibility, either for yourself, Web3 or [00:20:00] eventually for your company, for your team, for your organization.

[00:20:03] James: And I think that’s like the [00:20:05] biggest part of this, right? So your options when you’re changing industry are [00:20:10] suck it up and try and convince people or network your way into that position that you want or start [00:20:15] your own thing, know you’re going to make mistakes and really own those mistakes. [00:20:20] You know, even, even when it’s like a small change in industry, right?

[00:20:24] James: Going [00:20:25] from working for corporate hospitality to owning my own restaurant, [00:20:30] right? Suddenly the, the gravity, the weight of that sense of ownership [00:20:35] is multiplied 10 fold, right? It’s not, I don’t have the, the corporate [00:20:40] parachute to fall back on. If I make a mistake, this is people’s jobs, people’s [00:20:45] lives. My business, our capital, right?

[00:20:47] James: My reputation on the line. [00:20:50] Web3 And going through all of these experiences, I think the, the one thing that I really learned [00:20:55] is that, you know, in your mind, you always say, okay, like if I get to this point, this is as bad as it’s going to [00:21:00] get. This is the bottom. Like I’ve never actually found [00:21:05] that bottom.

[00:21:05] James: Like it’s always further away than you think. Like, you know, the, the risk [00:21:10] is always, it’s daunting. You’re looking at it in the face, you’re looking down that cliff and thinking, [00:21:15] okay, this is going to hurt. Web3 but it’s never actually been that bad. [00:21:20] You know, it’s, and, and so, Don’t let the, Web2 I guess the fear of [00:21:25] failure hold you back from trying to do it, Web2 because that, I mean, I’ve, [00:21:30] I’ve done this enough times that like the bottom is always further away than you think, Web3 [00:21:35] it’s never, it’s never as pressing as, as you’d like to think.

[00:21:39] Thomas: Yeah, I always add to that. [00:21:40] It’s like your resilience is a lot higher than you think it is. It’s just almost never being tested to the [00:21:45] point where you’re like, Oh shit, I’m not resilient enough. There’s like, trust me, you can [00:21:50] go a lot harder and a lot deeper. You just never get to that point really.

[00:21:54] James: And then it makes [00:21:55] the highs so much higher too, right?

[00:21:57] James: Cause you’ve, you’ve come so much further. Web3 [00:22:00] and it’s just, I don’t know, for me, it makes life generally speaking, more enjoyable.

[00:22:04] Thomas: Yeah. [00:22:05] Yeah. It’s like, it’s people always say you start from zero. I was like, no, if you’re that deep, you start at minus 20, [00:22:10] but then if you go to plus 10, that’s a Delta 30, right?

[00:22:13] Thomas: Like that’s massive. But if [00:22:15] you look from baseline zero, you go to 10, it’s 10. It’s still a win, but it’s, it’s a [00:22:20] different, it feels different. Web3

[00:22:21] Charlie: yeah, for sure.

[00:22:23] Thomas: So, you know, when you’re innovates and, [00:22:25] and of like, as a leader, you are innovating, obviously, are there any. [00:22:30] insights on innovation and leadership that, Web3 that you see in building into [00:22:35] and building your ventures over the years, Web3 that have similarities in, in this [00:22:40] specific market, if you’re building, Web3 or any perspective that you say like, Hey, that’s [00:22:45] something that I didn’t I didn’t realize until it was a lot like, you know, a [00:22:50] year, two years into it, I was like, shit, that’s something that makes a lot of sense.

[00:22:54] James: [00:22:55] Two things. Web3 one defining, right? Like I’m going to [00:23:00] provide a definition of Web3, right? For, for a lot of people, Web3, it was kind of coined by [00:23:05] blockchain people. So a lot of people refer to blockchain stuff when they’re talking about Web3. [00:23:10] Web3 And I’m, I’m guilty of this as well, have a tendency to [00:23:15] limit our industry to a specific thing.

[00:23:18] James: And I think that [00:23:20] that is probably the worst thing we can do when looking at like the market, because you’re only [00:23:25] looking for success with your immediate peers and colleagues and you get into this echo chamber very quickly. [00:23:30] Web3 so I’ve, I’ve really made it a point over the past nine months, [00:23:35] start looking at Web3 as all of the emerging [00:23:40] technologies, right?

[00:23:40] James: Going back to 2017 when a Ethereum is going to be the next [00:23:45] generation of the internet, blockchain be the next generation of the internet, [00:23:50] leaving the blockchain part out of it. And then just saying all of this emerging technology, this will be the [00:23:55] next generation of the internet. Web3 and so that, you know, very naturally [00:24:00] lumps in things like AI, right.

[00:24:02] James: For computing, Web2 blockchain can be the [00:24:05] infrastructure stuff, Web2 metaverse. Soon, someday, like it probably won’t [00:24:10] be called the metaverse anymore, but like we are innovating in new ways to interact with digital [00:24:15] technologies. And the kind of those three things coming [00:24:20] together, new interface, new infrastructure, new compute, that’s Web3.[00:24:25]

[00:24:25] James: Right. And in whatever form that takes, Web3 and that’s the same thing that happened with web [00:24:30] too. Like, yeah, we call it the cloud, but really it was the introduction of broadband internet [00:24:35] and Amazon web services. And then later EC2 and then Lambda and all these other technologies that made [00:24:40] YouTube possible, right?

[00:24:43] James: Those people that were building [00:24:45] is like, Oh no, I do, you know, data center infrastructure. I do, you know, raid redundancy. [00:24:50] Like that was their industry, but really what they were building was this larger thing. Yeah. Web3 [00:24:55] I mean, specifically for blockchain tech, Web3 [00:25:00] there’s a, there’s a tendency to look at token [00:25:05] prices as kind of your, your, your North star for what market we’re in.[00:25:10]

[00:25:10] James: And, and I think that that’s wrong, especially as a founder. Web3 tokens can be [00:25:15] up, tokens can be down, but the reality is that a lot of the things that influence token prices have [00:25:20] nothing to do with the technology that we’re building. Web3 and that’s also why we have like this [00:25:25] incredible volatility. So unless, I mean, we’re always fundraising, but unless you’re, you know, [00:25:30] particularly exposed to token prices, the reality is that We’ve kind of [00:25:35] always been in a bull market.

[00:25:36] James: The technology has continued to improve and it’s improving [00:25:40] faster and it’s being harder to keep up with. Web3 and so I, [00:25:45] I don’t, when we talk about market, especially with other founders, look at, Hey, [00:25:50] Ethereum’s up, Bitcoin’s up. It’s more, Hey, did you see what these guys did with this tech? Did [00:25:55] you, have you thought about what you could now do with this?

[00:25:57] James: Right? Web3 these [00:26:00] guys have now a network forward. GPU templates that is cheaper than [00:26:05] running it on Amazon. And so you can do AI on the blockchain faster. How does that impact your business? [00:26:10] Web3 and in that sense, right, we, we get very, very quickly to a [00:26:15] conversation about timing, right, which I think is really more of what this market question is about.[00:26:20]

[00:26:20] James: Web2 it’s about finding product market fit, product market fit comes back down to timing. What [00:26:25] does the market need now? And do I have a solution for it now? And yeah. And can we [00:26:30] monetize it? Right.

[00:26:32] Thomas: I think that that’s the age old question [00:26:35] in this industry, but I think this, this loops it very well into, Web3 [00:26:40] the next step, which is, Web2 Web2 you know, the top 10 advice [00:26:45] that we always ask from our guests, Web3 for, for our listeners [00:26:50] and viewers.

[00:26:50] Thomas: I think you already gave a couple of really good nuggets here, but I think, you know, let’s, let’s hit that [00:26:55] topic because I think there’s a lot of value. Web2 in, in, in just these 10 [00:27:00] points. I don’t know what I said. You already gave probably like another 10 just before. So

[00:27:04] James: it’s all the [00:27:05] suffering, man. That’s

[00:27:09] Charlie: for this [00:27:10] next section advice for startup founders. This is where we’ve sourced questions from our community. [00:27:15] Essentially to get the answers from experts like yourself, James. Okay. [00:27:20] The first question is on strategic alignment. Essentially, how do you ensure that [00:27:25] your company’s operational strategy aligns with the long term business goals?

[00:27:28] Charlie: How do you plan that out [00:27:30] in the fast moving web 3 space?

[00:27:32] James: Absolutely. Web3 I’d like to [00:27:35] just, I think you guys did a really good job of this, so I want to call it out. On the podcast, the [00:27:40] context for these, you know, 10 points, Web3 these are founders without [00:27:45] significant reputation, capital, or connection. So we’re really talking about like early stage founders.

[00:27:49] James: Like [00:27:50] what’s that zero to one, maybe even coming from a different industry, right? Maybe you’re coming from [00:27:55] Web2 or coming from something else and you want to jump in. Web3 I think when it, [00:28:00] when it comes to strategic alignment to your question, Web3 You know, we, [00:28:05] I, and I’ve definitely done this, right? Focused more on the tech than maybe the product.[00:28:10]

[00:28:10] James: And I think if I could go back and do that differently, I would say, don’t start [00:28:15] with a product, don’t start with a solution, really, really, really [00:28:20] focus on that problem. And once you have that problem, kind of work your way backwards [00:28:25] and say, can I solve this problem in an amount of time where this problem [00:28:30] will still be relevant?

[00:28:31] James: Web3 And if the answer is yes, then you [00:28:35] found it. And if not, then keep thinking about it. Web3 Something I see [00:28:40] a lot that comes from kind of like the web to move fast and break stuff [00:28:45] mentality, Web3 is that people will start with the product itself, right? They have their [00:28:50] problem and they come out with a product and then they continually iterate the product.[00:28:55]

[00:28:55] James: In an attempt to find product market fit and where that works really well in Web2, because you have [00:29:00] all of this again, commoditized infrastructure and you have the ability to push and [00:29:05] deploy an A B test very, very quickly. That’s just not the reality for [00:29:10] Web3. Web2 a lot of what we do is expensive.

[00:29:13] James: A lot of what we do takes time, [00:29:15] and either you’re compromising on the core values that make. [00:29:20] Web3 different and potentially better than Web2. Web3 or [00:29:25] you’re building a cloud based solution that has a little Web3, you know, [00:29:30] just put on top, right? This isn’t butter for your toast. This is a solution to a [00:29:35] problem.

[00:29:35] James: Web3 so when you’re thinking strategically, right, it’s [00:29:40] timing and it’s solution. And can I solve this problem in the amount of time that it would [00:29:45] still be relevant, I think is really what to come back to. And then, yeah. Product, product will come, [00:29:50] product market fit, you’ll find it, but. Right. We have to build a little bit [00:29:55] differently in Web3, just because of the nature of what we’re doing.

[00:29:57] James: Right. It’s, Web2 it’s more akin to [00:30:00] hardware development than it is to software development in a lot of ways. [00:30:05]

[00:30:05] Charlie: Nice. All right. Question number two, key metrics. So what are you looking at when, [00:30:10] like specifically for operational metrics, like what should the [00:30:15] north star be for a Web3 startup? What should you monitor regularly?

[00:30:19] Charlie: How do you know [00:30:20] whether, you know, on your rag status, it’s, it’s red or amber or green?

[00:30:24] James: When it [00:30:25] comes to metrics, especially in the early days, I think there’s, there’s a few things. [00:30:30] One, communication. I think it’s not a metric you hear very often. [00:30:35] Web3 but setting a cadence and establishing good habits for [00:30:40] communication and check in.

[00:30:41] James: And being able to communicate effectively as a team, [00:30:45] what you’re building and where you are in that process. Web3 [00:30:50] because of the nature of an early stage startup, you’re going to have a lot of failures. And if you [00:30:55] don’t have the ability to document and communicate, right? Documentation being [00:31:00] part of that communication process.

[00:31:01] James: If you don’t have the ability to do that and share that information with the rest of the [00:31:05] team, Measuring productivity is kind of worthless because you can [00:31:10] show productivity, right? I checked off so many tickets in this week. I completed my sprint. [00:31:15] I put in so many hours, right? There’s all these other metrics that you can put towards building your [00:31:20] solution.

[00:31:20] James: Web3 but if you don’t have the proper communication behind that, it, it [00:31:25] falls flat. And what you end up doing is spending a lot of time running around in circles or building in a direction [00:31:30] that you didn’t actually mean to just found out kind of too late. [00:31:35] So, so yeah, when, when we’re really starting off early, right, when it’s going from a founding team of [00:31:40] two or three people and you’re going to five people, seven people, nine people, [00:31:45] it’s continually checking in with your team and making sure that those [00:31:50] check ins are valuable and that you’re actually sharing information in a way that’s both effective and [00:31:55] useful.

[00:31:56] James: Cause yeah, if not all these productivity metrics that you’ll see people [00:32:00] recommend, you know, setting KPIs and tickets and sprints and all these things, it ends up [00:32:05] being worthless.

[00:32:06] Charlie: Web3 any other productivity side metrics should the [00:32:10] communication be good?

[00:32:12] James: Does it work?[00:32:15]

[00:32:16] James: I mean, jokes aside, excuse me. Web3 [00:32:20] but yeah, it doesn’t work. Web3 there was, [00:32:25] there was a lot of times that we were tracking, like how much code did you actually write? How much research did you actually do? How much did you [00:32:30] actually commit? Web3 but at the end of the day, if, if it doesn’t [00:32:35] work, that, that goes right out the window, right?

[00:32:37] James: Web2 especially when you’re heavily into [00:32:40] research and development. Web3 we, we’d have team members who their [00:32:45] bias would naturally drive them more towards either research or development. [00:32:50] And so you’d get people that would spend a lot of time researching. And it’s like, Hey boss, like [00:32:55] I went through 14 white papers this week.

[00:32:57] James: Isn’t that incredible? And I go. [00:33:00] Absolutely. But does it work? Like, do you have code for it? Like, does this, is this [00:33:05] something that’s actually usable or on the flip side? Hey boss, I, you know, committed [00:33:10] 15 things to the GitHub this week. Does it work? Does it do what we needed to do? Or [00:33:15] is it just code for the sake of code?

[00:33:16] James: Web3 and so again, kind of, I mean, it’s not a metric, [00:33:20] but, Web3 always checking in whether you’re doing research or you’re doing [00:33:25] development and keeping that in mind of, you know, Is this actually meeting the expectations [00:33:30] of what we needed this step to be?

[00:33:32] Thomas: It’s a lot about context in that matter, right? [00:33:35] It’s like numbers in and of themselves mean nothing if there’s no context to it.

[00:33:38] Thomas: You can, as you said, like commit like [00:33:40] 20 things to GitHub, but if it doesn’t, there’s no narrative or context behind it, [00:33:45] then, you know, that can be like 10, you know, 20 really small things or 20 really big [00:33:50] things, but the metric getting on itself doesn’t say anything like that, that [00:33:55] one commit that you did, that one piece of work that you did that can, you’ve maybe done in a [00:34:00] month or work in that.

[00:34:01] Thomas: So that’s context as

[00:34:02] James: well and coming back [00:34:05] down to like, does it work or to your point context, you know, can someone else use this? [00:34:10] Like, is this at a point where I can now sequence this into what’s [00:34:15] ultimately going to become the solution? Right? It doesn’t matter if you’re a plumber. It doesn’t matter if you, [00:34:20] you know, I don’t know, laid a hundred feet of copper piping in all the walls.[00:34:25]

[00:34:25] James: If it doesn’t work, then the drywall guy can’t come in and close up the walls, right? So even [00:34:30] though you did the time, even though you did the work, if it’s not actually completed, if it’s not actually [00:34:35] achieving turning the faucet on. Right. Then the next person in line can’t [00:34:40] start doing their work. Web3 and so I think, especially in the early stages, metrics are [00:34:45] important.

[00:34:45] James: You do need to measure, Web2 but keeping to your point, context kind of [00:34:50] in front of mind and making sure that you are making sure that the team is in sync. And that your [00:34:55] sequencing is as tight as possible. What you don’t want is people waiting on other people and getting hung up on [00:35:00] your dependencies. Web3 I’m a big fan of Gantt charts, dependencies and kind of [00:35:05] sequencing things out.

[00:35:05] James: I think this is whether it’s in a kitchen or in a construction project or in a [00:35:10] tech company, it’s, it’s important, right? Things come sequentially. Work in parallel when you [00:35:15] can, but at some point, right, you need to start having these interactions between two different [00:35:20] fields of expertise.

[00:35:21] Charlie: Absolutely. Okay.

[00:35:23] Charlie: Number three, resource [00:35:25] allocation. This is a big, a big debatable one. Web3 could you share your [00:35:30] insights on how you’d effectively allocate resources in the early stages of [00:35:35] a Web3 startup to maximize growth? And sustainability.

[00:35:39] James: So [00:35:40] when most people think of resource allocation, they think of capital,

[00:35:43] Charlie: right?

[00:35:44] James: [00:35:45] And, and I, I wholeheartedly agree. Capital is incredibly important, right? I think [00:35:50] Charlie, you told me this, the number one job of a CEO is don’t run out of money, right? [00:35:55] Web3 I mean, one of, one of three. Web3 [00:36:00] but I think even more important than capital is time and [00:36:05] how you allocate your time and how you stay focused.

[00:36:08] James: Right. And making sure [00:36:10] that you’re not, you know, chasing white rabbits all the time is incredibly [00:36:15] important. Web3 a big part of that, and, and I don’t, I don’t [00:36:20] see this enough. I think, especially from early, early stage founders, it’s, [00:36:25] Get out of your house, get out of your office, right? People try to build in a [00:36:30] vacuum because it’s comfortable.

[00:36:32] James: But what that does is it [00:36:35] removes you from the context of what it is that you’re trying to solve. [00:36:40] And so I don’t care if you’re working in a coworking, I don’t care if you’re going to meetups, I don’t care if you’re [00:36:45] just meeting up with other colleagues that you know, have an opinion on the work that you’re doing [00:36:50] in a restaurant or a cafe or a bar or a park or whatever.

[00:36:53] James: You need to create [00:36:55] context for these kinds of discussions outside of what your work environment [00:37:00] is so that you can really keep in focus what it is that you’re doing all this work [00:37:05] for. Web3 and really managing that time, right? Effectively. Web3 [00:37:10] the, Web3 the second thing outside of capitals. Definitely like your, your [00:37:15] team, right?

[00:37:16] James: Web2 human resources, horrible way of naming it, but [00:37:20] effectively how effectively are we using the true [00:37:25] resource, right? That money is translated into expertise. How are we putting that to work? Web3 [00:37:30] and the reality is that people need to stay motivated. People need to stay [00:37:35] focused. People need to understand what you’re building towards.

[00:37:39] James: I think [00:37:40] it was an eye opening moment. Web2 I think it was [00:37:45] ECC last year. We did a whole debrief after the, after the, the conference [00:37:50] with, you know, our team, which was at that point, largely research and development. It was a bunch of [00:37:55] engineers in a room and me. And how did you think it went? How did you know, what were your conversations like?

[00:37:59] James: Who did [00:38:00] you speak with? And after about 15, 20 minutes of having this [00:38:05] debrief, the one thing that I learned was that. I hadn’t communicated [00:38:10] where we had taken the marketing and the communication and the messaging and the product market [00:38:15] fit to the engineering team. And I had really ineffectively [00:38:20] allocated those resources to that conference, right?

[00:38:22] James: Everyone had a week. Where they weren’t coding, they [00:38:25] weren’t doing what they were great at, and instead they were out here promoting the project and talking about what we were [00:38:30] building. But the way they were talking about it was either very specific to what they were building or [00:38:35] something that we had, like a narrative or a message that we had abandoned a year ago.[00:38:40]

[00:38:40] James: Web3 and so keeping the team up to date, [00:38:45] communicating with them effectively, keeping them motivated. Web3 that’s really, they’re, they’re your best [00:38:50] advocates, right? And so then the, the capital part kind of trickles into how do you allocate your [00:38:55] time? How do you allocate your team? Right? I mean, outside of that, as an early, early stage [00:39:00] startup, you really shouldn’t have Very much like a lot of overhead.

[00:39:03] James: You shouldn’t be throwing big events. You shouldn’t [00:39:05] be paying for fancy lawyers. Your accountant shouldn’t be really much more than a bookkeeper, right? You want to keep [00:39:10] all of that as lean as possible and, Web2 and yeah, and focus on, on your team and your [00:39:15] time.

[00:39:15] Charlie: All right. Well, this files in nicely into, I mean, you kind of answer this a little bit, but [00:39:20] team building question for, Web3 when you’re looking for team members, what are the [00:39:25] qualities you’re looking for and how do you then foster a culture that [00:39:30] supports that?

[00:39:31] Charlie: Innovation. Yes. But the execution, like let’s get stuff done. [00:39:35]

[00:39:35] James: Culture when it comes to early stage startups, Web2 is interesting, especially [00:39:40] when you’re like very, very early, that zero to one. Web3 I’ve, I’ve seen a lot of [00:39:45] founders focus a lot on culture. Who do we want to be? Right. I’m going to spend a [00:39:50] week working on a document that details and outlines what kind of company we are, right.

[00:39:54] James: [00:39:55] We are, ping pong tables and bright colors, that kind of thing. And at the end of the day, [00:40:00] right, you can try and influence that culture as much as you want. The [00:40:05] cultural end up being the sum of the people that you are working with and the way that you interact. [00:40:10] Web3 and so particularly when you’re hiring, right, [00:40:15] make sure that this is a person who is, I mean, at least for me, right, not afraid [00:40:20] to fail.

[00:40:21] James: Not afraid, not afraid to communicate that failure, not afraid to raise their [00:40:25] hand when they have a problem, right, who’s willing to ask for help, Web3 and [00:40:30] willing to learn, right? When you’re trying to do something differently, they’re going [00:40:35] to have to get outside of their comfort zone. And if you find people that kind of align to [00:40:40] these driving values, the things that really make early, early creative [00:40:45] stage startups work, then, then your culture will come naturally because of that.[00:40:50]

[00:40:50] James: Obviously, once you start getting to 10, 15, 20 people, then you want to start solidifying and [00:40:55] documenting and standardizing that culture, right? You need to be able to provide that culture [00:41:00] as a directive for your HR manager for future hires. Web2 for your [00:41:05] marketing team and the way that you communicate, right?

[00:41:07] James: The, the tone and the voice that your company [00:41:10] collectively has. But at the early days, don’t spend too much time trying to [00:41:15] define what that culture is, let it grow organically, take the best parts of it, Web3 and then [00:41:20] reinforce those good behaviors, right? Those good habits with your team. Web3 so [00:41:25] I think a big part of that is hiring slow and making sure that they fit, that they meet [00:41:30] kind of what that is, not just from a technical expertise or a professional expertise [00:41:35] standpoint, but also from, right?

[00:41:37] James: What’s effectively an airport test, right? [00:41:40] Will I like to sit down and actually have a conversation with this person? Web3 in [00:41:45] the event that you mess that up, and this is something that, you know, coming from a corporate background, [00:41:50] my instinct is always to train and to try and help improve. But, Web3 [00:41:55] you know, firing fast is something that I, you know, definitely could have improved on and will do, you know, [00:42:00] definitely treat it differently now.

[00:42:02] James: Web3 as a startup and resource [00:42:05] allocation, you don’t have the bandwidth to carry dead weight. Web3 so if you’re confident that you’ve [00:42:10] given this person the tools and the resources that they need to succeed, you’ve given them purpose, you’ve given [00:42:15] them plan. Web3 you’ve given them goals that they can actually achieve.

[00:42:19] James: You know, in, [00:42:20] in an ideal situation, goals that you set together, right? Expectations that you set together [00:42:25] that you decided that were mutually achievable. Web3 if you’ve given them a good [00:42:30] shot, 30, 30 days, 40 days, right? Something very tangible. I want to see [00:42:35] difference. And if that’s not the case, then. You know, it doesn’t work.

[00:42:39] James: [00:42:40] Web3 and so yeah, build your team up higher, slow, fire, fast, trust your instincts, [00:42:45] Web3 but also be cognizant of the fact that, you know, it might [00:42:50] be also you, right? Make sure you’re not the problem in the team, Web2 and make sure that you’re [00:42:55] managing that effectively because I’ve seen both happen, right? Oh, fire fast.

[00:42:58] James: Oh, it’s not working. Just [00:43:00] fire. No, that’s not right. Make sure that you’ve taken a step back, really looked at yourself, had that [00:43:05] open channel of communication with your employees, with your team. Web3 And, [00:43:10] Web3 right. And then get there

[00:43:12] Charlie: accelerating through now, question five, operational [00:43:15] tools and practices. Web3 what are the tools that you’d recommend from an [00:43:20] early stage zero to one founder is differential for Web3 to traditional tech [00:43:25] startups.

[00:43:25] James: So, yes. Because of the decentralized [00:43:30] nature of Web3 and blockchain, right? Whether you like it or not, you will always be [00:43:35] managing, to some degree, a remote team. The [00:43:40] chances of you having everyone in the same place at the same time are either [00:43:45] non existent or incredibly expensive. And it’s not something that as an early stage startup, you want, [00:43:50] Web3 if you did build your team with the people that are immediately available [00:43:55] to you locally, like physically available to you, Web2 you’re probably missing out on [00:44:00] expertise that, that you should have looked for elsewhere, or you’re spending too much for it where you [00:44:05] are currently.

[00:44:06] James: Web3 and, and this needs to be translated into your [00:44:10] operational tools and practices. This needs to be translated into your systems and your processes. [00:44:15] So again, don’t overthink the processes, like don’t [00:44:20] spend a month setting up a CRM or, Web2 you know, a Gantt [00:44:25] chart or a ticket management system, like use what’s off the shelf, work with your team, kind [00:44:30] of work out those kinks.

[00:44:31] James: And as long as you establish a regular cadence, right, you start [00:44:35] developing habits. Web3 and you, again, back to expectations and [00:44:40] communication. Right. If you use the tools, the way that you use the tool is more important than the [00:44:45] tool that you have. Web3 and because we’re remote first. [00:44:50] that kind of has to be your baseline.

[00:44:51] James: You can’t be like, Oh, we have 90 percent of the office in [00:44:55] person. And then we’re going to do this for this other 10%. You really need to be managing for the people [00:45:00] that are the other 10%, because especially in Web3, that’s the way that it’s going. I [00:45:05] don’t think we’re going to see a consolidation of blockchain or Web3 engineers in [00:45:10] one place, right?

[00:45:10] James: The idea of a hub is somewhere that you go, but not somewhere that you live, [00:45:15] right? You fly in and out of. San Francisco, New York, Austin, Paris, [00:45:20] Berlin, Lisbon, right? These are places that you don’t necessarily have to live, but that you need to visit [00:45:25] frequently. Your day to day operations need to come down to tickets, [00:45:30] regular meetings, rhythm more than anything.

[00:45:33] James: Web3 So I, [00:45:35] I, I don’t think you wanted me to list specific tools that we’ve used, [00:45:40] Web3 but you know, find what works.

[00:45:44] Thomas: Yeah. Think of [00:45:45] Jira,

[00:45:45] James: all these, you know, Asana, I’ve used all of them, you know, and to, to a certain [00:45:50] degree, like some teams just have like an adverse reaction to [00:45:55] some things like Jira. People don’t, I don’t know, there’s like, Oh, Jira is not cool anymore.

[00:45:59] James: [00:46:00] Right? Like, so if you try to choose Jira, it’s like, Oh, I left web too, because I didn’t want to use [00:46:05] Jira anymore. Okay. That’s fine. We’ll use ClickUp. We’ll use Airtable, use [00:46:10] whatever. But if the, if the learning curve is easy enough and people use it effectively, that’s more important. [00:46:15] Web3 but cadence, I think cadence more than anything with a remote [00:46:20] team.

[00:46:20] James: What

[00:46:22] Charlie: are some of the most significant operational [00:46:25] challenges that you faced when you’ve been scaling your team?

[00:46:28] James: Probably should have saved my story about [00:46:30] communication after ACC for this. Web3 well, I mean, [00:46:35] communication

[00:46:35] Charlie: referencing that.

[00:46:37] James: Yeah. I mean, the first thing would be communication, [00:46:40] right? Web3 when you’re three people, it’s very easy to hop on a phone call whenever and [00:46:45] share information.

[00:46:45] James: When you’re 10 people, you need to have a daily call. Web3 [00:46:50] 1520 minutes just for everyone to share information and then find out if you need to have [00:46:55] an additional conversation after that. If you’re 2530 people can’t do a [00:47:00] 15 minute call anymore. Right now you’re breaking into departments, but you need to bring everyone [00:47:05] together, right?

[00:47:06] James: Probably once a week. And then once a month do a [00:47:10] big milestone strategic. This is our roadmap. This is our plan. This is our vision. This is [00:47:15] what’s changed conversation. Web3 so again, setting that cadence [00:47:20] for communication in scaling helps you understand where you have room [00:47:25] to add. Further things as your team grows and you can continue to scale that level of [00:47:30] communication.

[00:47:31] James: Once that happens organically, you turn it into a process, right? You turn into [00:47:35] a system. I expect you to be on this phone call every single day at 5 30 PM Central [00:47:40] European time. This is non negotiable. Web3 this is what I expect to have from you. [00:47:45] Three wins. Three things you need help with, and then a report on your tickets.

[00:47:48] James: Done. Right? [00:47:50] But first three people, not so important. 10 people, much more important. 20 people, [00:47:55] absolutely critical. Web3 and the only way that you’ll get there at scale is by [00:48:00] constantly, again, communicating and saying, guys, where are we missing? Where are we dropping the ball? And then [00:48:05] using that feedback to improve that continually, right?

[00:48:08] James: To iterate on your [00:48:10] processes. Web3 just because you have a process that worked a year ago, doesn’t mean it’s going to [00:48:15] work Today. Web3 and so you need to continuously update that as you scale. [00:48:20] Web3 If it feels like there’s friction, you probably need to re examine it. [00:48:25]

[00:48:25] Charlie: Right, now we’re getting to the more Web3 side of things.

[00:48:27] James: Okay.

[00:48:28] Charlie: Partnership development. In a Web3 [00:48:30] environment, partnerships can be crucial. Web3 how do you identify [00:48:35] and cultivate strategic partnerships that propel your business forward?

[00:48:38] James: Web2 don’t be a [00:48:40] dick. Step one.[00:48:45]

[00:48:46] James: No, I think again, especially in tech, it’s [00:48:50] very easy to, to shy away from being active in a [00:48:55] community, Web2 when it comes to partnership development you, you need to nurture that [00:49:00] side of who you are. I am instinctively introverted, but I’ve become [00:49:05] much, much better at going to conferences and just walking with people say, hi, I’m James.

[00:49:08] James: What do you do? Well, what do [00:49:10] you do in the space? Right? That question that we all hate to answer 50 million times over the course [00:49:15] of four days, but you get good at it. And then once you get past that, you can say, is this something that I want to [00:49:20] continue having a conversation with? Is this someone I want to share my telegram with, or am I going to walk [00:49:25] away from that?

[00:49:25] James: Web3 so you have to go to these events, and I understand that for [00:49:30] especially a lot of early stage founders, conferences can seem like a [00:49:35] distraction, and in many cases they are. Like, when we were building very heavily, [00:49:40] I, I took probably six or seven months where I didn’t go to conferences, period. My [00:49:45] job was with my team.

[00:49:46] James: Web3 But the world moves on without you, right? And then you [00:49:50] have to go back and nurture those relationships again. So even if it’s one conference a quarter, [00:49:55] even if it’s, you know, just meetups in your local city or, you know, doing a [00:50:00] hackathon or something that’s online or virtual, participating in that community one way or another [00:50:05] helps you maintain those partnerships that will eventually become commercial partnerships, right?

[00:50:09] James: This is [00:50:10] a person that I met three years ago. And then you run into them in Istanbul [00:50:15] and it’s like, Oh, what are you doing now? Oh, I’m doing this now. Oh, wow. We could really work with that. You have a framework, we have [00:50:20] an infrastructure, we should go to the market together. Web3 so getting out of your house is super, super [00:50:25] important.

[00:50:25] James: Web3 and the, the second one, [00:50:30] it’s a little cringe for me because it’s like one of these like textbooks. Like I read it in a book sometime and [00:50:35] when I’m starting a business, I need to have mentors, right? Mentors. Everyone’s talking about mentorship, [00:50:40] mentorship. Web3 I want to emphasize that like, this isn’t [00:50:45] like Aristotle sitting on a rock type of mentorship, like that you really need [00:50:50] what you need to do is you need to again, build that community and know that when I need to learn [00:50:55] about cryptography, I go to this guy when I need to talk about tokens or product market fit [00:51:00] or marketing or communication, you have people that you’ve met.

[00:51:03] James: In this process [00:51:05] that help you get to the right partnerships that you need for the [00:51:10] business, right? It’s that personal relationship. Rely on your community to filter that [00:51:15] for you. Web3 it makes it a lot less transactional as well. Like I [00:51:20] know a marketing guy. Marketing guy recommends that I go talk to these four companies to solve this [00:51:25] problem.

[00:51:25] James: And then from that, you can have one, a warm introduction, but two, [00:51:30] you’re already, you’re not wasting your time. Again, the most important resource that you [00:51:35] have as a startup founder, you’re not wasting time talking to people that are either too big for you, too small for you, or [00:51:40] just otherwise don’t provide a good service, right?

[00:51:42] James: It’s been filtered through some degree of, of [00:51:45] recommendation. Web3 so mentors, if we want to call them that, advocates, [00:51:50] resources, right? These are experts that you’ve cultivated because you left the [00:51:55] house, right? Web3 and I think that’s, that’s super, super important. Web3 [00:52:00] and sometimes it’s just not talking about Web3, like we’re all human beings too, you know, [00:52:05] there’s a lot of, you know, food and beverage guys, a lot of [00:52:10] music guys, a lot of folks that like, I don’t know, bouldering or skiing or whatever it might [00:52:15] be, Warhammer, right?

[00:52:16] James: Like, it’s okay to not talk about crypto stuff with, with, [00:52:20] with the community. Web3 a lot of times those are some of the better communities that you [00:52:25] have. Like, Web2 one of my most active telegram groups, it’s just guys that like [00:52:30] smoking cigars that work in crypto. And we meet up at conferences, right? And, uh Nice.

[00:52:34] James: Yeah, [00:52:35] it’s easy, right? It’s an easy thing to bond over, but then you start getting those partnerships and then they help you [00:52:40] filter and then you get the commercial stuff as, as, as a part of that. Web3 [00:52:45] caveat, this probably works right now for Web3. [00:52:50] Web2 I can only assume that as we mature and we are maturing very quickly, that this will, [00:52:55] You know, stop being the case.

[00:52:56] James: Right. But right now everyone’s still kind of an og. [00:53:00] It’s still very early days. Mm-Hmm. And I mean, that’s my playbook for right [00:53:05] now.

[00:53:07] Charlie: Yeah. All right. Getting accelerating to the end of the 10 [00:53:10] questions, risk management. Web3 we’re gonna ask you to quick fire these ’cause of time. Yes [00:53:15] sir. Can you risk management?

[00:53:17] Charlie: Can you discuss your approach to risk management, [00:53:20] particularly in relation to technology and the market volatility of Web3? [00:53:25]

[00:53:25] James: Web2 you can’t control the volatility. That’s fine, right? Ignore it. It’s [00:53:30] always going to be up or down, good or bad. Web3 when I make [00:53:35] decisions, I always start with the fact that there is no such thing as a perfect decision.

[00:53:39] James: I need to make [00:53:40] the best decision with the information that I have available to me. Web3 and [00:53:45] usually that is, I’m going to take a day to analyze and collect as much information as I [00:53:50] can. If it’s a big problem, a week. If it’s a huge problem, like a legal thing, maybe a month. [00:53:55] Web3 But set a timeline for yourself.

[00:53:56] James: And at the end of that time, with the information that you have, make the [00:54:00] best decision that you can write as a, as a founder, as a CEO, Web2 your [00:54:05] job is to always make the best decision within the context that you’re in, right? [00:54:10] There’s no such thing as perfect information.

[00:54:13] Charlie: Web3 nine [00:54:15] learning from failure.

[00:54:16] Charlie: Could you share an example of a past operational failure and what [00:54:20] you learned from it that could be useful for a new emerging technology startup founder? [00:54:25]

[00:54:25] James: A past operational failure.

[00:54:29] Charlie: This feels a bit like that [00:54:30] interview question of tell me a time you overcame a challenge.

[00:54:34] James: [00:54:35] Right now, Charlie being on this podcast.

[00:54:39] James: Okay. [00:54:40] Web3 there was, there was a period of time. [00:54:45] We were moving too fast. [00:54:50] Web3 and you know, again, the, the, the romanticism, [00:54:55] the romanticization of a founder is, you know, you move fast and you do things quickly and [00:55:00] things will break. And the reality was that we were moving much faster than we needed to in [00:55:05] retrospect.

[00:55:05] James: At the time we were so close to the problem that it felt like, we just need to push, [00:55:10] push, push, push, push. And at the end of the day, the [00:55:15] right answer would have been taking a step back, Web3 pulling the wheels a [00:55:20] little bit and then making better decisions, right? Providing yourself the [00:55:25] space for perspective, Web3 as an example.

[00:55:29] James: we had [00:55:30] committed to launching within six to eight months of fundraising. Web3 and [00:55:35] so each Denver came around and we were like, well, on the timeline we said we were going to be ready. So we’re [00:55:40] going to do everything that we can to be a sponsor at East Denver this year. Right? And so we invested money, [00:55:45] we invested time, we invested resources, Web2 we flew the team out [00:55:50] and in retrospect, yes, it was a great conference.

[00:55:52] James: Yes, we I mean, by [00:55:55] all conference measures succeeded, we got what we wanted out of it [00:56:00] as a company, as a product, we weren’t ready for that. Like that investment would have been much, much more [00:56:05] useful six months later, a year later. Web3 and so [00:56:10] just being too close to the problem or trying to keep yourself to a timeline that [00:56:15] you set.

[00:56:16] James: a year ago or six months ago that is no longer a reality. [00:56:20] It’s okay to push timelines out as long as you have a good reason for it and then allocate those resources [00:56:25] after the fact. Web3 right. Recognizing the difference between, you [00:56:30] know, not being ready and not being ready to try. Sometimes you’re just not ready [00:56:35] and the trying can go away, right?

[00:56:37] James: Web3 at the, on the flip side, [00:56:40] there’s a lot of founders that don’t try at all because they feel like they’re not ready when in reality they [00:56:45] are. And so you need that perspective, you need a step back So that you can learn from your failures, but [00:56:50] yeah, like Denver, I’m not going to say it’s a failure, but it’s definitely a learning opportunity, right?

[00:56:54] James: Of just [00:56:55] allocation of resources.

[00:56:56] Charlie: Okay. Final question. Advice for founders. [00:57:00] What is a piece of evergreen advice that you would offer someone starting [00:57:05] their journey as a Web3 startup founder today?

[00:57:09] James: So with, with [00:57:10] no connections, no capital,

[00:57:13] Charlie: no

[00:57:13] James: reputation. [00:57:15] Man, I’ve said this so many times. Communication.

[00:57:19] James: [00:57:20] Communication. Communication. Community, secondly. Web3 and then [00:57:25] really just emphasizing those connections, even if they don’t seem like they’re important, right? [00:57:30] You, you are solving a problem, right? When you’re talking about product market fit, you’re solving a [00:57:35] problem for a specific group of people. And your hope is that this right product [00:57:40] market fit, that the problem that you’re solving, that there is enough people that share in that [00:57:45] problem and that desire your solution that, you know, it’s worth it as a [00:57:50] business to be there.

[00:57:51] James: Web3 and if you don’t actively interact with the people [00:57:55] that you’re solving that problem for, You’re never going to find product market fit. [00:58:00] Web3 don’t solve other people’s problems. Solve a problem that you share [00:58:05] in as part of them.

[00:58:08] Charlie: I like it. That’s great. [00:58:10] All right. So now at that portion where Thomas and I actually get to jump in.

[00:58:14] Charlie: [00:58:15] Hey, we’re doing the brainstormings, Web3 [00:58:20] foundational business practices from an

[00:58:21] Thomas: experienced CEO. Like foundational business [00:58:25] practice. We did cover some of that, but I think there’s a lot to touch upon.

[00:58:28] James: Right. [00:58:30] Web3 all right. So I’ll, I’ll float this out to you guys that, Web3 I was, Web2 [00:58:35] I was having a conversation with a founder yesterday.

[00:58:38] James: Web3 who [00:58:40] is admittedly, he’s a little longer in the tooth than I am. He’s, he’s gone through a few of these, [00:58:45] right? He was early telco, early sass. Now he’s Web3. He’s been here [00:58:50] in the, in the space for a while. Web3 and, Web2 we were talking about a some [00:58:55] hard decisions that I have to make as a CEO, right?

[00:58:57] James: Mentor, friend, right? This guy, you [00:59:00] know, eating barbecue with in Austin. Yeah. Web3 and a [00:59:05] good thing that he said to me was, if you’re unsure what you’re trying to do as a [00:59:10] CEO, Right. Just think about it from your board’s perspective, even if [00:59:15] you don’t have a board, right? Use that as a reference point that [00:59:20] if the, the behavior that I took was analyzed by people that [00:59:25] had a financial interest in my business and all of the emotions and the operations and the practical stuff [00:59:30] went away, and I was just looking, did this person, did this founder, did this CEO [00:59:35] make the best possible decision in this context, If you can answer that question, [00:59:40] then that’s pretty much where your answer is.

[00:59:42] James: Web3 and I thought that that was really [00:59:45] insightful because even though you might be skirting, right, you’re in some gray zones, you might be hurting some [00:59:50] feelings, you might be doing some hard calls. If you can go back and say, I didn’t enrich [00:59:55] myself artificially, like I unnecessarily, Web3 and provided where the [01:00:00] company was in the situation that we were in, I made the best possible decision.

[01:00:03] James: Web3 you know, I [01:00:05] know you guys both also share leadership roles, Web3 in your various organizations. Like [01:00:10] how does that sit with you guys?

[01:00:11] Charlie: I like it. Web3 I think I also, I think [01:00:15] it’s pretty, so it’s interesting because a lot of people say something similar in parallel. So, [01:00:20] Web3 as soon as I seen that, that YouTube of Matthew McConaughey, it’s like, who’s your hero?[01:00:25]

[01:00:25] Charlie: It’s like, it’s me in five years.

[01:00:27] James: I have not seen that.

[01:00:29] Charlie: No, I say, so [01:00:30] he said, it’s a, it’s a similar thing. It’s like, who would you like? Who’s your hero? It’s me in five [01:00:35] years. The mentor kind of sees him five years later and goes, [01:00:40] so who’s your hero? And he goes, it’s, it’s, are you your hero yet? And he’s like, not even close.

[01:00:44] Charlie: It’s me in five [01:00:45] years from now. Right. And you use that as a guiding light as to who you want to be. [01:00:50] And I think in terms of decision making, you, you can be [01:00:55] your own. worst critic, but also if you, if you model who you want to [01:01:00] be and where you’re going and like what that would look like for [01:01:05] you and you speak to future you and you say, well, what do I do in this instance?[01:01:10]

[01:01:10] Charlie: It’s, it’s also quite like a useful conversation to have, or at least it’s, it’s something that I occasionally do. [01:01:15]

[01:01:17] Thomas: Ask people that have no, [01:01:20] they have, have an, there is an impact on the decision for them, but they don’t directly [01:01:25] know. I just throw the decision at them or like the idea of what do you think?

[01:01:29] Thomas: And that [01:01:30] has been engineers. It has been project managers. It has been, you know, everybody I’ve worked with. I’m [01:01:35] like, Hey, we were sitting with this, this particular challenge. This is one of the solutions that we’re [01:01:40] thinking about. What do you think? And then generally you get back, well, why are you asking me?

[01:01:44] Thomas: It’s like, because [01:01:45] you have a perspective that Is far removed from the problem. So you look [01:01:50] and it doesn’t mean that you’re the solution that you think of, or that the [01:01:55] feedback that you get is always valuable, but it’s fresh eyes from somebody [01:02:00] completely different. Well, we’re still aligned in your business.

[01:02:02] Thomas: Web3 and I’ve come to some [01:02:05] really interesting outcomes sometimes. So I was like, shit, I didn’t even think of that because it was so close to the [01:02:10] problem, Web3 as a curse of knowledge that you have, you’re like, oh yeah, but I know this. So I, I. This [01:02:15] is the best way of solving it. And then somebody says, well, while it’s a great way of solving it, have you thought of [01:02:20] exploring this area?

[01:02:21] Thomas: I’m like, shit. Yeah. And then there’s a, that’s a whole [01:02:25] different, different way. So, Web3 I think it’s always. [01:02:30] Making, making the right decisions is really hard. And I think being humble, [01:02:35] that’s always, for me, has been very valuable. Generally made [01:02:40] the better decisions, right? Like, and that sometimes meant that things took longer.

[01:02:44] Thomas: Web3 but I was [01:02:45] like, no, this is probably the better decision. Long term because I have three different [01:02:50] perspectives from three different people in the business. Web3 and if I combine that somehow, yes, this will be a longer [01:02:55] track, but I’ll, the outcomes for them and myself are probably, Web3 [01:03:00] a lot higher, better, smarter, whatever it is.

[01:03:02] Thomas: And I think that often [01:03:05] my decisions are fueled by like, this is how I used to do project management. And James, we spoke [01:03:10] about that last time we see each other. Like, I always believe that I’m a translation layer, right? To [01:03:15] whoever I work with. Like, I translate what my clients want to my team. I translate sometimes what my co [01:03:20] founder want to myself or the other way around.

[01:03:22] Thomas: So a lot of my decisions are not, [01:03:25] Web3 my decisions. They’re fueled. heavily influenced by others, Web2 [01:03:30] to ensure that it’s the right decision to be made. Web2 it’s not often that I’m standing alone. I’m like, [01:03:35] okay, this is a decision I need to make alone. It’s very often like, well, I, I have all these perspectives.

[01:03:38] Thomas: I bundle it down to something [01:03:40] that makes sense to everybody. I will bear responsibility for that decision, but it’s heavily influenced and [01:03:45] heavily fueled by, by other people’s, Web3 perspectives.

[01:03:48] James: I’m a, I’m a huge [01:03:50] fan of collaborative decision making. Web3 and I, I think it’s [01:03:55] probably the The greatest trick to inspiring instead of leading, [01:04:00] right?

[01:04:00] James: Like lead has this connotation of like a dictatorship. This is coming down from on high and [01:04:05] you have to do it. This used to happen in corporate all the time. Why do I have to do this? Because someone above me [01:04:10] told me that I had to tell you. And that’s all I know.

[01:04:12] Charlie: Right. Yeah.

[01:04:13] James: Web3 but when you, when you [01:04:15] make decisions, especially critical ones collaboratively, Web3 especially like with your founders, then you [01:04:20] kind of have the sense of, we all came to this conclusion together.

[01:04:22] James: Yes. Like you said, Thomas, I bear [01:04:25] the responsibility. If this goes wrong, I will be responsible to my board, to my investors, to [01:04:30] any other parties. Web3 but at least you have that buy in and if you have the buy in, [01:04:35] usually that makes all the difference in whether or not your decision works or not. Yeah. [01:04:40]

[01:04:40] Thomas: Or, or at least like defend yourself when it goes wrong.

[01:04:42] Thomas: You feel that you’re not standing alone. [01:04:45] Web3 because the buying of the people, like, that’s what I found. You, you, you create that buy in. [01:04:50] Web3 and we did a lot with servant leadership, right? So, you know, I created my teams to be [01:04:55] leaders, like leaders on, Web2 on the mountain, like, Web2 almost the American army [01:05:00] tactics, right?

[01:05:00] Thomas: Like you have squads, Web2 and you know, you have a, you have a team lead, but if they fall away, [01:05:05] then the next person needs to, Pick that up. And I found if I brought that whole team into the decision [01:05:10] and they’re like, yeah, We we think this is a great decision like cool Let’s do it that when let’s say [01:05:15] something went wrong in the project.

[01:05:16] Thomas: These guys would also be there to solve it together, right? It’s not like oh, yeah, it was [01:05:20] your decision. No, they bought into that. They agreed that this was the right decision So they will also [01:05:25] help you if for whatever reason that decision doesn’t work out In the way it should work out, [01:05:30] Web2 that, that for us was always very helpful and still is like, I always say like, look, engineers always should have [01:05:35] a strong voice in what is valuable.

[01:05:38] Thomas: Web3 [01:05:40] and if that’s, you know, working with engineering for the last 10 years, Web2 those very often [01:05:45] like, yeah, but you’re the project manager. You need to make decisions. I’m like, no, no, no. My decisions are made by you. Like I [01:05:50] will narrate them. I will storytell them. I’ll sell them to the client. But if you think this is the right way of doing it, [01:05:55] then let’s do it.

[01:05:57] Thomas: It’s like, but then you also give that responsibility partially back because they’re like, [01:06:00] Oh wait. So now if I say we’re going to use architecture X, Y, or Z, and it goes [01:06:05] wrong, it’s on me. I said, no, no, it’s on all of us, but you are influential. So, you know, [01:06:10] this is your buy in. So you’re also asking them to, to bring that, Web2 [01:06:15] responsibility and creates leaders.

[01:06:16] Thomas: And, and then as you said, like, if you, if you leave from the front end, [01:06:20] if you inspire, you often see that if you’re, if you’re inspired the [01:06:25] right way, if you motivate the right way, they don’t need leaders. Web3 they will, they will choose their own [01:06:30] leaders. They will run that forward. Web3 they solve their problems.

[01:06:33] Thomas: And when there are problems [01:06:35] that are not being able to solve by themselves, like you’re stepping in and take that, [01:06:40] right? Like that’s the flexibility and leadership. You’re the guardrails. [01:06:45] Always. Yeah. That’s it.

[01:06:47] James: I love a good team member that has initiative. [01:06:50] Like there’s, there’s a few things, initiative and creativity.

[01:06:52] James: Like if, if you step up, [01:06:55] I mean, I’d rather be the person that has to say, Oh, okay. Dial it in a little bit. You’re, you’re going [01:07:00] off the rails here, but I’d rather see. Yeah.

[01:07:04] Thomas: [01:07:05] Right. Like I remember having an engineer and I was just like, I had a whole new plan for this client, really tough client and [01:07:10] set it all up.

[01:07:11] Thomas: And I, for 50 minutes, explain what I think is best. And this guy it’s [01:07:15] bullshit, man. And I was like, Oh, no, I was like, okay, explain, like, what do you think we [01:07:20] should do? And in 10 minutes, he had a better idea. I was like, yeah, let’s go with that. So it’s [01:07:25] also, you know, listening and is that you’re in leader. It doesn’t mean that, you know, everything it’s very often that [01:07:30] you don’t know enough.

[01:07:31] Thomas: Web3 and then just that, that’s what also me, but at humble sites, like this was an [01:07:35] engineer, it was just front end engineer. It was nothing, not influential. Didn’t had a lot of, [01:07:40] A decision making capability capabilities. But he’s like, no, what you’re just said is bullshit. We’re going to do it. [01:07:45] I think it’s better to do this way.

[01:07:46] Thomas: I’m like, I think that sounds like a really, really good idea. Let’s do it. And [01:07:50] we actually got great success of it. Right. So it’s inspired. Take the [01:07:55] cartwheels, but also be humble enough to say, yeah, I don’t know everything. Web3 [01:08:00] Please, please bring in your perspective, even though it’s not your expertise, right?

[01:08:03] Thomas: Because it was a process, this [01:08:05] discussion, and he is an engineer. He was not really interested in the process, but he was, in the end, he was more interested in [01:08:10] the process than I realized. So took that, built something out of it. Success. I like it. There’s [01:08:15] some

[01:08:15] Charlie: interesting stuff. I mean, so from, so I obviously come from like a bit more of a [01:08:20] financial corporate corporate background, Web3 as well.

[01:08:23] Charlie: And. [01:08:25] There’s two things. One, one is completely get everybody on board on making the decision but make the [01:08:30] goddamn decision and don’t have the death by committee thing. You’ve got to step up to the plate and be like, it’s on me, this, [01:08:35] this, we’re going that way. I feel like when it comes to putting that trigger, [01:08:40] it can be scary or intimidating, but I think it’s [01:08:45] important to, to just do it.

[01:08:47] Charlie: And sometimes you can’t ask people. You just got [01:08:50] to, we’re going this way. Yeah. Why? I’ll tell you later, but we’re going this way [01:08:55] in an ideal world. Yeah. You get everybody’s buy in for a site. I completely [01:09:00] agree. Web3 I also like what you said about. Bringing people along for the [01:09:05] journey. I think that’s great.

[01:09:06] Charlie: Really, really strong. Web3 [01:09:10] do you, I mean, do you, Web2 is there a framework that you guys use for [01:09:15] decision making? I know, like people talk about the Eisenhower matrix all the time. You know, is it [01:09:20] urgent? Is it important? I know, Thomas, we’ve talked about this as well. Yeah. Like, is there a, [01:09:25] is there something that.

[01:09:27] Charlie: Like a starting point we could, we could bring into the [01:09:30] conversation for our audience.

[01:09:31] Thomas: It’s a, it’s a hard one. I mean, like, I think [01:09:35]

[01:09:35] Charlie: Eisenhower may like, look at the Eisenhower matrix, what to do today. Urgent. You know, we can, we can [01:09:40] start there. That’s a pretty sound one.

[01:09:42] James: Yeah. You’ll have to introduce me to the Eisenhower [01:09:45] matrix.

[01:09:45] Thomas: A lot of tanks. I think it was, Web3 [01:09:50] I would always say. Like coming from healthcare, [01:09:55] right? Like we worked with patients with people, so I’m trained to [01:10:00] think in risk scenarios. What is, what is option A, B, C? What are the risks [01:10:05] over the next three months? And the liabilities are huge in that industry as well.

[01:10:07] Thomas: If

[01:10:08] Charlie: something goes wrong, it’s like,

[01:10:09] Thomas: Oh, [01:10:10] yeah, exactly. It’s like, all right, this, this, this guy now stands on the balcony. Did we do something wrong in the last [01:10:15] 12 months? Right? Like, it’s life or death,

[01:10:18] James: like

[01:10:19] Thomas: actually [01:10:20] life or death. It’s, it’s not, it’s not. So you, you’re like, I’m trying to think [01:10:25] that way. And then if you apply that to business, Web3 [01:10:30] I would say like, you know, Web2 one of my, one of my teams who also goes here, we’re, we’re [01:10:35] in the business of killing babies, right?

[01:10:36] Thomas: Like killing your, your startup baby. We [01:10:40] have engineers coming up, like the counter’s coming to us with the best next idea, and we’re like, nope. Sucks. [01:10:45] We can build you a better baby, but, Web3 so I [01:10:50] think that when it comes to, Web2 decision making is a lot about like risk [01:10:55] scenarios, right? So we look at, okay, this may work, but what, this may work short term, but does it [01:11:00] mean midterm?

[01:11:00] Thomas: What does it mean long term? And I, I have that feedback mechanism mechanism so [01:11:05] ingrained in me that almost every decision I make, I’m just always like. Do a quick one, two, three. It’s like, okay, [01:11:10] what are the options that we have? Okay. This doesn’t make sense. This partially makes sense. This is probably the way to go.

[01:11:14] Thomas: So you’re [01:11:15] just constantly running that feedback loop in your head. Web3 which [01:11:20] helps for me personally a lot in making these decisions, but, [01:11:25] Web3 it’s sometimes really hard to narrate those [01:11:30] perspectives because you think so far ahead, Web3 it’s, it’s 40 chest sometimes, [01:11:35] right? You’re just like, okay, but if you know, client access this and we’re going this direction, we’re doing this, then.[01:11:40]

[01:11:40] Thomas: Web2 Ross spoke about that outcome of the outcome, right? So we, we, we dig sometimes even [01:11:45] deeper for every scenario, there’s an outcome of the outcome. Web3 [01:11:50] that, that is the method that I always use, but it has limitations because it just, [01:11:55] it’s mostly in my head because it just, I’ve been trained that way and not everybody thinks that way, [01:12:00] but I do believe that.

[01:12:01] Thomas: Risks, risk thinking without being risk averse is [01:12:05] probably the way to go because like risks are, in my opinion, opportunity. [01:12:10] Web3 and you just need to understand what the outcome of an opportunity can be. Web3 and sometimes that means a lot [01:12:15] of risks and that is Fine, right? As long as you can somehow [01:12:20] calculate a little bit of the scenarios in which way this risk is going to spread out and the opportunity is going [01:12:25] to play out, Web3 that that’s, that’s how I generally roll.

[01:12:29] Thomas: [01:12:30] Like, try to at least challenge. I mean, [01:12:35]

[01:12:35] Charlie: go ahead, go ahead, James. I was going to

[01:12:36] James: say, kind of to that point, like, I’m a huge fan of taking inventory, [01:12:40] right? If I have a big decision that we’ve got to make, right? A [01:12:45] big pivot or something. The, my first step is always to take a step [01:12:50] back and say, Okay, this is more or less the decision that I have to make.

[01:12:54] James: The first [01:12:55] question is always, do I actually have to make this decision? Or is this just the decision that’s been provided to me? [01:13:00] If I don’t like The answer, maybe I need to change the question. So is the question right? [01:13:05] And then step two is, okay, what resources do I have in front of me [01:13:10] now that I can use to try and answer this question?

[01:13:13] James: And if I don’t have enough resources, [01:13:15] then again, probably the wrong question, but really kind of doing a deep dive [01:13:20] into what are my options, what’s within my control, what can I [01:13:25] influence? Web3 and then from there, then, like you said, kind of medium [01:13:30] term, right? What do I do now? What is, what are the potential outcomes for that in the [01:13:35] near to medium term?

[01:13:37] James: And then the last thing that I’ll often consider is [01:13:40] the long term, long term, long term being three to five years out. Web3 because [01:13:45] once you get past that first step and you’re moving again, right, then you can kind of [01:13:50] pivot and start really understanding what those. Problems are, Web3 [01:13:55] what is it, Web2 was it like stagnation through consideration or whatever it is?

[01:13:59] James: Like I see a [01:14:00] lot of founders get into that. Well, I’m not going to start this project because in five years there might [01:14:05] be a regulatory hurdle that I won’t be able to overcome. And so it’s not even worth trying.

[01:14:09] Charlie: Yeah. [01:14:10]

[01:14:10] James: Okay, so then why are we having this conversation, right? So the inventory helps keep me grounded [01:14:15] and helps me to come back and say, okay, this is where I think I want to go, but this is what I have [01:14:20] control over right now.

[01:14:21] James: And to a certain degree, if you don’t have control over it, or if there’s [01:14:25] externalities that you can’t anticipate, like. Right. Then you made the best decision with the information that you have.

[01:14:29] Thomas: I would [01:14:30] add to that. It’s just sometimes just, just start doing it like paralysis analysis is a [01:14:35] real, real big thing, right?

[01:14:36] Thomas: Like you have it with engineers, you have it when in finance, you have it in marketing. It’s [01:14:40] just like, yeah, but what if this, but go do it. If the risk is manageable, [01:14:45] go do it. Just do it. See, because the moment you start doing it, a lot of other possibilities and [01:14:50] opportunities open up.

[01:14:51] James: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What’s it, Web2 the opportunity cost, right?

[01:14:54] James: [01:14:55] Like a lot of people don’t take that into the risk assessment, the risk of not doing [01:15:00] anything. A lot of times outweighs by a large portion, [01:15:05] the risk of actually doing something.

[01:15:06] Thomas: Yeah. And I think people often forget that if you start doing [01:15:10] things, you fail and that’s, that’s where your, your, your learning comes in.

[01:15:13] Thomas: Right. So you’re, you’re, you’re now [01:15:15] like, let’s say 10 percent smarter than you were like before you started. So anything is just do it. Just get it. Yeah. [01:15:20] Get it on the road. If you decide halfway, it’s like, okay, this was not the right decision. I mean, [01:15:25] in manageable and risk assessment, obviously, right? Like if it’s high risk, like [01:15:30] make sure you think it right, but just start doing it because sometimes you come to very new [01:15:35] opportunities and perspectives, or you just realize, shit, this was not the right way.

[01:15:38] Thomas: But at least we got this question [01:15:40] answered, right? This is not the way. Next one.

[01:15:43] James: Scariest thing for a founder is a [01:15:45] business with no momentum. Oh yeah.

[01:15:47] Thomas: That

[01:15:48] James: is [01:15:50] by and large, terrifying.

[01:15:51] Charlie: Mindful of time. I’m [01:15:55] going to add in just two more models. Like everyone knows this one. It’s a SWOT [01:16:00] like strength, weakness, opportunities, and threats model.

[01:16:02] Charlie: You’re like economics chapter three [01:16:05] of the textbook. I find always super useful. Like, yeah, when I’m [01:16:10] looking at stuff, it’s just like, You know, if you like, if you dive down deep into how you’re [01:16:15] supposed to put that thing together, it’s really useful. Yeah, I agree. And, Web3 and on like [01:16:20] project or decisions, like project management or decisions, I always use RACI, which is, or [01:16:25] RACI, depending on where you’re from, Responsible, Accountable, Consulted, and Informed.

[01:16:29] Charlie: Mm hmm. [01:16:30] That’s decision making amongst teams. Web3 we’re not going to go through it now, but [01:16:35] for everyone, Watching this two super useful models [01:16:40] alongside the Eisenhower, which is more of what am I going to do today? Or like when you’ve got a lot on [01:16:45] Google, the Eisenhower major, you can just use that and you’ll find clarity [01:16:50] pretty quickly.

[01:16:50] Charlie: You just got to be belligerent around deciding that you’re going to commit to that. [01:16:55] And things think like, I think we can all agree as founders, like things fall through the cracks. And I think [01:17:00] there, I mean, you, you miss an email or a piece of communication or you know, [01:17:05] someone, something, and some things, sometimes things happen.

[01:17:09] Charlie: Web3 [01:17:10] you’ve Just got to keep going. Yeah. I agree. Web3 moving [01:17:15] into our next section, the desert Island essential section. Web3 this is if [01:17:20] you were right at the beginning of your career, you have no bags, no investments. [01:17:25] No reputation, no black book. What would you advise? What would be the five things that you advise [01:17:30] yourself to start doing, bring with you to your startup desert island?

[01:17:34] James: So this is, [01:17:35] this is not a physical desert island. This is feeling like you’re on desert island.

[01:17:39] Thomas: [01:17:40] Mental desert island.

[01:17:42] James: Oh, what I would do to have that desert [01:17:45] island these days. I, Web2 No. So [01:17:50] I obviously prepared this question, right? Starting from zero. And what I realized it’s, it’s not so much [01:17:55] about things, but about what those things represent for me.

[01:17:57] James: Right? So, Web3 every [01:18:00] time I change houses, every time I move, every office I move into, The first thing [01:18:05] that I need in some way, shape or form is a whiteboard. Like I think [01:18:10] better on my feet. Web3 I like to draw things out visually. [01:18:15] Web3 I actually, I learned visually much quicker than audibly. [01:18:20] Web3 And it’s also, it’s an incredible tool for collaboration, right?

[01:18:23] James: Communicating these [01:18:25] ideas and then getting people to buy into it. And so whatever that collaboration tool is for you, [01:18:30] or that ideation tool is for you, Web3 some version of that. But for me, just give me a whiteboard. [01:18:35] Like I’ve, I have completely destroyed walls of [01:18:40] mirrors and hotel rooms and stuff just with.

[01:18:42] James: You know, whiteboard because I needed it at that moment. [01:18:45] Web3 so whiteboard, number one, Web2 number two, a bar or a [01:18:50] restaurant or a cafe or a terrace or something, right? Again, get out of your office, get out of your [01:18:55] zone, go take a walk, find a place, a different environment to kind of ground you again [01:19:00] and help you get that perspective.

[01:19:01] James: We’ve said this a few times today, Web3 about how important it is to get [01:19:05] perspective. And I mean, for me personally, It’s, it’s a good meal. [01:19:10] It’s a good drink. It’s a good glass of wine, right? It’s, it’s a good conversation, Web3 and [01:19:15] context setting and being able to get out and still be kind of [01:19:20] on point, still be thinking about what you’re supposed to from a business perspective, but doing it from [01:19:25] something that feels more casual.

[01:19:26] James: You need both community on a desert island might be a little bit [01:19:30] tough, but some way to communicate with the people that you’re trying to solve for. Web3 sometimes [01:19:35] this could be super, super niche, Web2 but again, maybe this is just me, but my instinct [01:19:40] is regularly to isolate myself and that’s the worst way to do things.

[01:19:44] James: Web3 and so [01:19:45] forcing yourself to identify with a larger group of people to understand what [01:19:50] your collective problems are, Web3 and then figuring out how you can improve that. [01:19:55] You shouldn’t just be doing a solution for the sake of a solution. You should be trying to improve something for your [01:20:00] community in general.

[01:20:01] James: Web3 and then eventually something that you can obviously monetize and [01:20:05] survive off of. Web3 just because everyone says a [01:20:10] book, right? I’m going to do the opposite and say not books because there’s not a [01:20:15] single book in my life that I think has changed my life. Web2 [01:20:20] but I think what’s more important is the ideas in those books.

[01:20:23] James: And typically [01:20:25] When I need that idea, someone around me will say, Hey, have you read [01:20:30] this?

[01:20:30] Charlie: And

[01:20:30] James: if I’ve read it, I go, Oh yeah, I totally need to go think about, you [01:20:35] know, Annie Duke thinking in bets, right. Or something like that, because I have to do this, you [01:20:40] know, risk assessment stuff. Web3 or if I haven’t read it, then that gives me a chance to quickly fly [01:20:45] through that book.

[01:20:46] James: So the books themselves, not that important, but [01:20:50] surrounding yourself with people that read those books. And again, kind of filter that information for you and [01:20:55] make those recommendations. Web3 I had wasted a lot of my [01:21:00] twenties reading the next big business book [01:21:05] for our work week, whatever, right? Like I, all this kind of, there’s a [01:21:10] collection of authors.

[01:21:11] James: That their only success is being an author, right? And, and the [01:21:15] temptation to read those books, I think is very strong. And so avoiding that pitfall by [01:21:20] filtering through your community, I think is important. Web3 and then [01:21:25] time timing, right? How long do you want to be on that desert, on that desert island?

[01:21:29] James: [01:21:30] Enjoy the desert island. Like that’s a, it’s a really great place to be. Web3 [01:21:35] Looking back, I mean, it wasn’t a desert island, but when I first moved to Europe [01:21:40] from California, I found myself with like two or three weeks where I couldn’t get into [01:21:45] France. So I had to go to Greece with no plan. And I literally went to an island [01:21:50] because the Airbnbs were cheaper with my dog.

[01:21:52] James: And there was nothing like it was like four [01:21:55] restaurants and a marina and my small little Airbnb. And I got more [01:22:00] creative thinking done. In that space with that time in that island that I would love [01:22:05] to go back and do that again at some point in my life. Web3 obviously not anytime [01:22:10] soon, but like, I think time is also super, super important.

[01:22:13] James: Just being cognizant of [01:22:15] how special it is that you are on this startup desert island and you have this opportunity [01:22:20] to really kind of manifest an idea. Web3 [01:22:25] and then what drives that idea. Web3 I think Charlie, very early [01:22:30] on in our relationship, we talked about what is your motivation and it can’t just be money.

[01:22:34] James: [01:22:35] Web3 and for me, it’s building, it’s being creative. Like I love solving problems. [01:22:40] Web3 and in this particular case. For me, it’s a lot about agency, right? Like being [01:22:45] a founder for me meant I had the opportunity to work remotely. I had the opportunity to inspire [01:22:50] people, to build a team, to solve a problem for people that I care about.

[01:22:53] James: Right. And that kind of [01:22:55] wraps all of this up together for me. Web3 thoughts, comments, are we talking about [01:23:00] this or is it just me?

[01:23:01] Thomas: It’s all you.

[01:23:02] James: Okay.

[01:23:03] Thomas: This is just Gio’s spitting [01:23:05] wisdom, man. And they’re great. Like, Web2 I, I love, Web2 the, the [01:23:10] concept perspectives on this and I think, you know, specifically time, I want to add something there just [01:23:15] as a comment.

[01:23:15] Thomas: I think people always think they need to do something useful with their time. [01:23:20] And I often say it’s very good not to do something useful with your time. Go [01:23:25] out, play a video game. Like as a founder, you need different perspectives. Don’t [01:23:30] run, don’t do 80 hour work weeks, keep it at 40 or 50 or whatever, you [01:23:35] know, you are comfortable with, but spend time doing other stuff.

[01:23:38] Thomas: Like time is something [01:23:40] so, so important in your, your, for your brain and for your creative thinking, as you [01:23:45] mentioned. I

[01:23:45] James: mean, I think what you find is that you’re. When you’re a founder, you end up working all the time [01:23:50] anyways, right? It’s always in the back of your mind. And so sometimes you have to force yourself to take a [01:23:55] step.

[01:23:55] James: And one of my favorite things that I did on that Greek island was eat pistachios and watch the [01:24:00] cats outside fight. Like that was it.

[01:24:04] Thomas: That’s super useful [01:24:05] because it, it allows your brain to do something different than sitting in front of a screen and think about the problem. [01:24:10] You’ll, you’ll think about a problem, but not that consciously.

[01:24:13] Charlie: Web3 well, we’ve [01:24:15] reached the end of the show, James. Could you tell. our audience where they can find you and learn more about Intu. I

[01:24:19] James: mean, [01:24:20] absolutely. You can find me at most of the conferences this year, most of the conferences next year. [01:24:25] Web2 join the roadshow, baby. Web2 you know, Web2 Intu. [01:24:30] xyz, I N T U. xyz. Web2 I think it’s just James Bryant [01:24:35] Borque on LinkedIn.

[01:24:36] James: Web2 at Twitter, it’s underscore [01:24:40] Bellagare, B E L A G U E R, [01:24:45] Web3 is my grandmother’s maiden name, funny enough. Web2 when I first got into crypto, I wasn’t [01:24:50] sure if it was legal, so I did all of my first stuff with my grandmother’s maiden name. [01:24:55] So, Web2 so yeah, just about all my, my Web3 socials are somehow related [01:25:00] to B E L A G U E R.

[01:25:02] James: Web3 that’s actually where we got Guar. co from as well. [01:25:05] Another story there. Web3 but yeah, and if you are, [01:25:10] if you’re building in Web3, Web3 if you are trying to get to a mainstream [01:25:15] audience, if you believe that the future of the internet should be, you know, [01:25:20] one on chain, but also indistinguishable from online, Web3 then [01:25:25] come check out what we’ve built within two.

[01:25:26] James: Web3 I think that the infrastructure that we built is one super necessary, [01:25:30] Web3 but two super realistic and super practical for most projects. Web3 [01:25:35] and, Web2 if it’s not, then tell us why, right? Open communication and [01:25:40] feedback, Web3 so we can continue to iterate, but we’re really proud of where we are right now.

[01:25:44] James: Really proud of the [01:25:45] team and, Web2 yeah, look forward to hopefully working with a lot of folks. And I guess this as a [01:25:50] sign off, if, if you’re thinking of starting a new project, if you’re thinking of becoming a founder, if you’ve done it [01:25:55] before, if you’ve never done it, Web2 just sign up. Just do it, right? Don’t, [01:26:00] don’t think about it.

[01:26:00] James: It’s again, the bottom is always far away, but the highs are so much higher. [01:26:05] Web3 so, Web2 it’s been an absolute pleasure being here with you guys and, Web2 thanks for having me. [01:26:10]

[01:26:11] Thomas: Thanks for being here, man. It was, Web2 I, I. I [01:26:15] think there’s a lot of golden nuggets and perspectives coming out of this. And I hope that our [01:26:20] listeners really enjoy this.

[01:26:21] Thomas: And if you made it this far into the episode, thank you for listening. [01:26:25] Web3 we’d love to see you subscribe, like repost. We [01:26:30] love to see our content out there because we believe that the content that we deliver is educational and incredibly [01:26:35] valuable for new, new first time founders and new people in Web3.

[01:26:38] Thomas: Web3 So, you know, hit [01:26:40] that button, Web2 and we’ll see you next week with the next episode. Thank you very much. [01:26:45] [01:26:50] [01:26:55] Bye.