Web3 Marketing Strategies, Building Community & Validating Your Product with Kelsey McGuire

Marketing isn’t just about spreading the word – it’s about weaving a story that resonates.” Join us for the sixth episode of What The 3, the no-bs podcast for emerging tech startups.

In this episode, we sit down with Kelsey McGuire who brings her rich experience from being an ex-CMO at Coinfund to leading growth initiatives at Shardeum. She dives into the transformative power of community-centric marketing strategies and the critical role they play in go-to-market success.

She also shares actionable advice on building scalable marketing frameworks that adapt to evolving market demands and highlights customer feedback’s importance in shaping marketing strategies and overall business direction. Whether you’re a startup founder looking to carve out your niche in the competitive Web3 arena or a seasoned marketer aiming to deepen community ties, this episode offers a treasure trove of practical insights.

Throughout the episode, Kelsey offers invaluable insights into aligning product messaging with market needs, utilizing analytics to refine marketing approaches, and the importance of customer feedback in iterating and evolving marketing strategies. She also outlines her top five ‘Startup Desert Island’ essentials for any founder or marketer entering the Web3 space. This episode is packed with unfiltered wisdom and actionable advice that will help you harness the full potential of your marketing efforts.

[00:00:00] Charlie: Welcome to this new episode of [00:00:05] WT3 podcast, the podcast, where we tell you what you actually have to do. [00:00:10] They were talking to Kelsey McGuire about go to market strategies, validating your [00:00:15] products and devising effective go to market strategies to maximize your startup’s potential. [00:00:20] I’m actually really excited for this episode because.

[00:00:24] Charlie: You know, [00:00:25] Liam and I have been working together for a while, Kelsey and I met working on [00:00:30] Into and other projects and you’re couple, you’re couple of my most favorite people in the space to talk marketing with and [00:00:35] understand what’s going on in the market landscape. So I’m very, very excited. I’ll give you a bit of an [00:00:40] introduction into Kelsey as you already probably know Liam and myself after [00:00:45] episode one.

[00:00:46] Charlie: So welcome Kelsey, Chief Growth Officer at [00:00:50] Shardeum and Web3 Visionary. With a [00:00:55] background in marketing at ConsenSys and Coinfund. Kelsey has a proven track [00:01:00] record in growing teams and building communities. At Shardeum she’s leading the charge and [00:01:05] expanding the company’s reach and refining its strategy.

[00:01:07] Charlie: Known for her community centric [00:01:10] approach, Kelsey is driving Shardeum’s growth, leveraging its innovative technology and talented team. [00:01:15] Welcome to this podcast, where we’re going to explore with Kelsey, her [00:01:20] insights on growth strategies and the future of decentralization in the Web3 ecosystem. [00:01:25] I mean, we’ve had a few conversations.

[00:01:29] Charlie: [00:01:30] I know last time we met in DCC, we had about 40 minutes penned into the diary, ended up talking for about two and [00:01:35] a half hours. 

[00:01:38] 

[00:01:38] Charlie: So, well, I mean, I think the [00:01:40] most interesting thing is like, where did you get started? You’ve, you’ve obviously had a stellar career, like how did this [00:01:45] journey kick off for you?

[00:01:46] Kelsey: Yeah. Thank you. And thank you both so much for having me [00:01:50] on today. It’s been an interesting journey. You know, I, I worked in more [00:01:55] traditional marketing and brand related fields and did some [00:02:00] consulting before. Kind of getting a little bit more interested in Web3 and part of that [00:02:05] journey was I’m based here in New York City.

[00:02:07] Kelsey: So in probably [00:02:10] 2017, some of my friends who worked in banking started getting nervous about something called [00:02:15] blockchain technology. So when the bankers start getting nervous, I start getting a little more [00:02:20] intrigued. You know, learned a little bit about it on a superficial level. [00:02:25] And then it was one of those sort of serendipitous moments where I was at an [00:02:30] event.

[00:02:30] Kelsey: Downtown and Soho for some sort of fashion industry party that I was [00:02:35] working with and met someone who worked at ConsenSys and She told me a little [00:02:40] bit more about the type of work that they were doing over there and an Ethereum as well And [00:02:45] I gave myself a crash course and decided to just really dive in and make this my [00:02:50] career if I could and I was super fortunate that… well, everything went well and I was able to [00:02:55] kick off my time as a full time Web3, you know, marketer and community [00:03:00] person at ConsenSys in 2018.

[00:03:02] Liam: What was it specifically? That really [00:03:05] made you think I need to transition into into Web3 and then also what sort of [00:03:10] challenges Did that sort of bring to you with it being such a new sort of nascent space? 

[00:03:14] Kelsey: [00:03:15] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think specifically I thought that there was a lot of [00:03:20] unique potential with the technology honestly at this point some other [00:03:25] narratives that drew me in I feel like Haven’t quite come to fruition in the way that [00:03:30] I initially expected around this like You beautiful like financial [00:03:35] accessibility for the world and almost these like sort of amazing [00:03:40] lofty ideals.

[00:03:41] Kelsey: I think part of that is still here, but that was definitely the [00:03:45] bulk of what sort of drew me in was this sort of financial accessibility narrative, [00:03:50] Really gaining helping people around the world gain a little bit more [00:03:55] of the ability to tap into this global financial system but it’s [00:04:00] been an interesting journey seeing how that evolved and some of the challenges are like, okay With those [00:04:05] were some of the original narratives that were onboarding people into Web3, you know, what are we [00:04:10] looking at now in terms of how that can evolve and how to make sure that we’re building something [00:04:15] that feels like globally relevant without getting pigeonholed [00:04:20] into a social impact quarter, which unfortunately I’ve seen projects get stuck [00:04:25] in and start to wither.

[00:04:26] Liam: You talk about the fact that you’re based in New York. [00:04:30] In terms of marketing, obviously this isn’t the, the episode where we’re going to be talking legal, [00:04:35] but I think there’s an element of it. When you’re marketing a Web3 products, you’ve got to be [00:04:40] understanding of what you can and can’t say, especially in America and especially in states like New [00:04:45] York, you’ve had, obviously Coinbase we’ve now got Uniswap coming under, [00:04:50] the purview of, the SEC.

[00:04:53] Liam: How much does that sort of [00:04:55] affect you when you’re looking to market projects? 

[00:04:59] Kelsey: I think [00:05:00] that it has a huge impact, but even though those specific things were [00:05:05] not happening when I started in Web3 in 2018, the same ideas [00:05:10] around how to market Web3 projects still stand. And those initial ideas that we really stuck [00:05:15] with at ConsenSys and then all the projects I’ve worked with since are, do not [00:05:20] speculate on prices, do not make these kind of false Promises that you [00:05:25] can’t substantiate and don’t try to overhype things and I know that those two last [00:05:30] ones really connect in together But I’ve seen a lot of patterns where it is [00:05:35] not necessarily even a bad actor But there’s they have so much enthusiasm [00:05:40] around what they’re doing.

[00:05:40] Kelsey: So they want to talk about it And oh, this of course is gonna go to the moon [00:05:45] and we cannot wait to release it But really you have to be so [00:05:50] mindful and so careful about You Being able to back up exactly what you’re saying and [00:05:55] not getting into a sort of starting to drown in this pattern [00:06:00] of price speculation.

[00:06:01] Kelsey: When it comes to your marketing, that also really doesn’t tend to [00:06:05] build those sort of sustainable communities that you’re after for long term success [00:06:10] of a Web3 project. So really those core tenants have served us really well [00:06:15] over, over the years. And Projects that haven’t really kept that in mind, I’ve seen really [00:06:20] face those challenges.

[00:06:21] Kelsey: That’s not to say that projects who are doing everything [00:06:25] right, at least from external perspective, will not come under fire from the SEC here [00:06:30] in the United States. But I do think that all of these things as an industry are things [00:06:35] that we should be extremely mindful of and do our best. And I really have a kind of buttoned [00:06:40] up legal perspective.

[00:06:41] Kelsey: I won’t get too into the regulatory environment, but I really do [00:06:45] think that like, they can be Very healthy guardrails, or at least that’s how I see it when it’s [00:06:50] working. Well, regulation are those guardrails along that Kirby road, so you can go a little faster and [00:06:55] feel a little safer, but unfortunately it doesn’t always work that way in practice.

[00:06:59] Liam: [00:07:00] Yeah. And I won’t go too, too spicy here because I think ultimately what you’re saying is what [00:07:05] a lot of, people at Brian Armstrong and Hayden from Uniswap are saying in that we’re just trying to do. [00:07:10] Work within the guidelines that we’ve got and we need more. And I’m not putting these words in your [00:07:15] mouth, but I would sort of say that we do need more, we need more clarity and we need more clarity, not just from a [00:07:20] legal perspective, but for people like yourselves that are wanting to mark about market products and say the [00:07:25] right things and need to know what they’re going to say.

[00:07:27] Liam: Let’s move on to what you were talking about just there in terms of community. [00:07:30] You were talking about building communities and that’s something that you are extremely good at. Can you tell us a [00:07:35] little bit about what sort of strategies your employ, what sort of strategies you’re employing at [00:07:40] Shardeum, and how you are best seeing the best ways to kind of engage growth [00:07:45] in communities in Web3?

[00:07:46] Kelsey: Absolutely. So at Shardeum, we’re really [00:07:50] fortunate to have an incredible team on the ground, especially in India. [00:07:55] So one of the core pieces here is our proof of community series. So I [00:08:00] never discount the impact of in person meetups. And [00:08:05] we think, I think sometimes folks, especially outside of the industry who are just getting started, [00:08:10] really picture all of us just behind our computers all the time with limited [00:08:15] interest potentially in interacting with others.

[00:08:17] Kelsey: I know it’s a little bit of a stereotype, but that’s what [00:08:20] really, you know, when you think about a bunch of tech workers or developers or builders, there’s that [00:08:25] image, maybe it’s a darkened room, everyone’s just typing away. And really, if you want to [00:08:30] build those communities, of course, there’s a strong online aspect to [00:08:35] it.

[00:08:36] Kelsey: These relationships are really formed and solidified in [00:08:40] person. So I’d say then the first thing, especially at Shardeum, proof of community, [00:08:45] thinking through a meetup series, being strategic about it, understanding really what these different [00:08:50] regional audiences want and need, and really always seeking to add value when it comes to that.[00:08:55] 

[00:08:55] Kelsey: And by that, I mean, you’re not trapping people in a room, feeding them snacks, and then pitching yourself [00:09:00] to them over and over again. You’re really trying to figure out what they want to know and how to sort [00:09:05] of onboard them to the greater Web3 ecosystem. I feel like that sort of [00:09:10] approach really benefits us.

[00:09:11] Kelsey: Web3 overall. And really, that does come back to you. And we’ve [00:09:15] seen that. Second is establishing like a very strong online channel that [00:09:20] is managed. So we really focus on discord. And we have some [00:09:25] very talented folks at shardi that manage that on a daily [00:09:30] basis. And we have over 560, 000 people on there engaging.

[00:09:34] Kelsey: I [00:09:35] think a big challenge there that the founders really should keep in mind is that. You [00:09:40] have to lay out the intention of your online community and really think through it carefully [00:09:45] ahead of time because or else you could easily convert that into a help desk. [00:09:50] And there’s an element to, of course, wanting to answer questions, but [00:09:55] really when we’re looking at Web3 projects and most startups overall in other industries, [00:10:00] we have finite resources.

[00:10:01] Kelsey: So you probably aren’t going to be able to staff 50 people just to [00:10:05] make sure every single question is answered. So it’s really laying out a clear strategy and clear [00:10:10] expectations to the community around understanding what provides value to [00:10:15] them and how you’re answering questions that they enough questions that people feel like they can move forward.[00:10:20] 

[00:10:20] Kelsey: And that can take the form of, you know, batching different questions, making sure you’re [00:10:25] maintaining a great FAQ so the questions that are coming up again can be just answered proactively [00:10:30] and kind of taking it from there. So those are our key sort of community, [00:10:35] oriented moments. Of course, I think social channels, you can’t discount.

[00:10:39] Kelsey: [00:10:40] Twitter acts, you know, as well as. Video formats like [00:10:45] YouTube and we’re recording a video right now Those are super impactful when it comes to sort of [00:10:50] adding a little bit more to the community to sort of enrich it But you do have to have that place [00:10:55] where people are coming together both in person and on some sort of online [00:11:00] Format or tool that makes sense for the people that you’re working with. [00:11:05] 

[00:11:05] Liam: You talked before about Just in general Web3 marketing and some of the [00:11:10] mistakes that people make what are some of the mistakes if you can You see people [00:11:15] making well intentioned around trying to grow communities?

[00:11:19] Kelsey: Yes. [00:11:20] I think the number one mistake I see is not [00:11:25] setting correct expectations. And this is such a big one [00:11:30] and I’ve worked with projects and we’ve all fallen prey to it at times. And it’s a little bit [00:11:35] like what I mentioned earlier, where you’re building something and you’re so in it [00:11:40] and you know that there’s going to be a new feature, there’s a big release kind of [00:11:45] around the corner.

[00:11:45] Kelsey: So you want to talk about it right away. You want to say, look, this is coming. Join [00:11:50] us, sign up here, do this, do that. But a lot of times those projects fail to then to [00:11:55] set an accurate timeline. And the amount of momentum that you can lose [00:12:00] and trust that is eroded when you don’t do that is highly [00:12:05] detrimental.

[00:12:05] Kelsey: And really it can come from a very good place. It’s a great intention. You want to [00:12:10] share these exciting things with the community, but you really have to be mindful of [00:12:15] consistently building momentum in a way that is realistic with your timelines, [00:12:20] because there’s only but so much sort of wiggle room that you’ll get from your community [00:12:25] before they start feeling like they’re being deceived, even if that’s not your intention at [00:12:30] all.

[00:12:32] Liam: I remember last cycle, it was [00:12:35] pretty much a given, probably cycle four, for projects to be delayed and roadmaps to [00:12:40] not to hit the targets. Do you think, is that something that’s just not acceptable anymore, given the [00:12:45] competition across how many blockchains we now have? 

[00:12:49] Kelsey: I think to a degree [00:12:50] it is unacceptable.

[00:12:51] Kelsey: I think that with the level of [00:12:55] competition, that you have to think about things much more ahead of time. And that, by that I mean, [00:13:00] your roadmap might slip, but it’s not [00:13:05] something that should be, Here’s our entire roadmap communicated to the community [00:13:10] published externally and then you’re slipping.

[00:13:11] Kelsey: It should be we’re slipping a little internally. That [00:13:15] is normal and will happen, but you’re not having your big announcement cycles. You’re not [00:13:20] sharing all of that until you’re a little further along until you’re a little bit more locked in with your [00:13:25] timeline. There’s still some forgiveness there, but I think that setting a [00:13:30] aggressively incorrect timeline has too much I [00:13:35] think it’s because projects and founders, you want to get ahead a little bit as well and kind of keep up that, [00:13:40] that moment but really the negative impact that it has far [00:13:45] outweighs.

[00:13:45] Kelsey: I think the pot, any sort of positive little bumps that you’ll get when you’re looking at your KPIs. [00:13:50] 

[00:13:50] Liam: So you’re saying that in terms of the messaging, be more granular on the [00:13:55] things that you know are locked in and be a bit more kind of looser, give sort of ballpark [00:14:00] timeframes in terms of messaging for the bigger ideas.

[00:14:02] Liam: Yeah. 

[00:14:03] Kelsey: Exactly. That seems to [00:14:05] strike the best possible balance between you want to be transparent and share things with your [00:14:10] community, but you’re also managing expectations in a way that feels much more productive and [00:14:15] appropriate when you’re looking at some of these longer roadmaps and timelines, especially.[00:14:20] 

[00:14:20] Liam: I mean, that’s the thing, obviously, a lot of projects do have long roadmaps and long timelines. We’ve got [00:14:25] big plans to build. I mean, look at Ethereum where these Purge, merge, splurge, [00:14:30] gurgewurge, whatever they all are. Just goes on and on and on. Exactly. So with talking about that [00:14:35] and talking about going on and on, I’m going to segue perfectly into the future of Web3, [00:14:40] and decentralization.

[00:14:41] Liam: What are your sort of predictions and hopes for the industry? You talk about being [00:14:45] involved with ConsenSys back in 2017, 2018, and not coming. Around [00:14:50] some of the things not being materialized as you expected. What are some of the things that you really hope [00:14:55] will be in the future? And let’s say maybe this next cycle, let’s start with.[00:15:00] 

[00:15:00] Kelsey: Yeah. So I’m really excited to see that there is much more of a [00:15:05] focus on user experience now, because I think that we were slightly [00:15:10] delusional early on when it comes to, Oh, this is such a cool technology. Everyone’s going [00:15:15] to be excited about it. So they won’t mind that you have to do, you know, click on 10 [00:15:20] to 15 more things. They won’t mind that you have to write down a long [00:15:25] and maybe intimidating seed phrase. They just like, they’ll be awed by this and what [00:15:30] it can do. But you know, that’s, that’s really not the case. If we’re looking at broader [00:15:35] adoption, we really need to focus on user experience. And I see a lot more of that.

[00:15:39] Kelsey: So [00:15:40] for me, that’s a huge positive, because we’ve kind of gotten past this part of, [00:15:45] you know, Web3 development, where we do just think that because we think it’s great and cool, that everyone [00:15:50] must think it’s great and cool, and no one will mind being inconvenienced. But everyone minds being [00:15:55] inconvenienced, and I think it’s hard to even get someone to make one more click than they’re used [00:16:00] to when it comes to engaging with anything.

[00:16:03] Kelsey: And secondly, kind of [00:16:05] In line with that, I see a lot more conversations and focus on, Okay, [00:16:10] people will be engaging with Web3 and not even know it. And that is really [00:16:15] exciting to me, because again, for a long time it was, Okay, everyone needs to know [00:16:20] everything about Web3 and be able to do these complex, Kind of [00:16:25] transactions and be able to interact and, you know, engage with, with defy and all of these different ways.

[00:16:29] Kelsey: I think [00:16:30] that’s awesome if you’re into it, but most people are not necessarily going to be. And I think [00:16:35] as an industry, we’ve really matured and evolved and taken the perspective that a lot of people [00:16:40] will use the technology. They won’t necessarily realize that it’s Web3 and that is most certainly not [00:16:45] a bad thing.

[00:16:46] Kelsey: The people are using it and it’s providing like utility and you can play a [00:16:50] game and not necessarily know that it’s Web3 or maybe the game that you love uses, [00:16:55] you know, NFTs, but you don’t even realize that they’re NFTs because you’re collecting these great badges [00:17:00] or, you know, interesting. kind of skins or however it looks [00:17:05] for these different types of individuals.

[00:17:07] Kelsey: So that’s super encouraging to me just [00:17:10] because it’s indicative of the overall industry maturing and a shift [00:17:15] from just focusing and talking about who we are and what we’re doing to [00:17:20] understanding and focusing on the audience and the general public and what they actually want and need. [00:17:25] 

[00:17:25] Liam: I completely agree.

[00:17:26] Liam: And I think one sort of example that people sort of miss, I always tend [00:17:30] to use like the JavaScript example, but I think an easy one is just, you can have someone [00:17:35] have an Android tablet that has a Google app search for something and be on the internet. And then on [00:17:40] the other side, you’ve got people that set their own Linux instances with their own custom browsers and [00:17:45] plugins.

[00:17:45] Liam: And they’re also on the internet, two completely different ways of being online. [00:17:50] One potentially quite technical, very customized. The other just. dead [00:17:55] straightforward. They don’t even know that they’re using a web browser. There are people that don’t know what a web browser is that can use the [00:18:00] internet.

[00:18:00] Liam: Yet at the moment, you kind of have to know what a Web3 wallet is to [00:18:05] use Web3. I think that’s what you’re kind of getting at, I guess, is it? 

[00:18:08] Kelsey: Yeah, exactly. [00:18:10] Like there’s a lot of ways to, I think, get value and utility out of a [00:18:15] new technology. And just because you’re doing a longer roundabout way doesn’t make [00:18:20] your way of accessing it more valid.

[00:18:22] Liam: And it’s also, I think there’s, [00:18:25] but progressive onboarding, I think, is a thing where going like step by step, I also write [00:18:30] for Forbes and their Web3 community. They use, what’s [00:18:35] the wallet called magic dot link, which I’ve not used before. And that’s a really straightforward. You just create [00:18:40] a Web3 wallet with your email and you’ve got a Web3 wallet.

[00:18:42] Liam: You can’t do much with it other than [00:18:45] access the website and get their NFTs and whatnot, but you’re in and you’re using it and [00:18:50] it’s that easy. And it’s one click. So is that something in terms of messaging? [00:18:55] How important is it to you to like, I guess what [00:19:00] I actually want to ask is from the team, from the marketing perspective, how much do you have to fight [00:19:05] back necessarily some of that technical, technological sort of aspects of the say, no, we need to talk about all this [00:19:10] technology.

[00:19:10] Liam: And you may be saying, well, no, let’s talk about functionality. Is there, is there some of that friction? [00:19:15] 

[00:19:15] Kelsey: I think there is often that friction, especially when it’s a product that is more [00:19:20] sort of consumer focused, where you naturally really do need to orient [00:19:25] completely towards a broader audience. And it is just because I think [00:19:30] that a lot of it does come from enthusiasm around.

[00:19:32] Kelsey: What special things are being [00:19:35] built and done? 

[00:19:36] Kelsey: But it really is it can be quite a bit of back and forth at [00:19:40] times and I’ve seen it over the years where Everyone wants to just kind of [00:19:45] go on about what they are doing and not really focus on what it’s doing for them [00:19:50] Anyone it’s kind of like I really remind people too.

[00:19:52] Kelsey: It’s kind of like if you’re at a party Yeah, you know and you [00:19:55] you go up to someone and they’re just like well I went to this university and now [00:20:00] i’m working here and I have this car and i’m doing this You don’t want to talk to them [00:20:05] You don’t really want to hang out with them anymore, but if they’re trying to figure out who you are [00:20:10] and connect with you on that level and be like, Oh, actually I have this friend that might be great for you to [00:20:15] meet.

[00:20:15] Kelsey: It feels very different. And to me, that sort of illustrates the different types of marketing and [00:20:20] communication styles. And, and you don’t really, maybe you’ll be initially Curious about [00:20:25] the person who’s ranting on about you know, their cars and nice house and their school But you [00:20:30] probably aren’t going to really want to spend much time with them long term I think it’s important to keep that in mind when [00:20:35] you’re you’re working on any sort of marketing or communication strategy. 

[00:20:39] Liam: [00:20:40] Brilliant.

[00:20:40] Liam: Well, you finish off this section. Could you talk about any sort of specific challenges [00:20:45] or turning points in your career that really helps you get a deeper understanding [00:20:50] of the leadership or innovation in the Web3 space? 

[00:20:53] Kelsey: Absolutely. I [00:20:55] feel like there were some interesting turning points in, in the [00:21:00] past through.

[00:21:01] Kelsey: You know, ConsenSys as, you know, Coinfund [00:21:05] here and some of the patterns were really just seeing what [00:21:10] very much doesn’t work. So I think a huge turning point was probably 2018, [00:21:15] 2019 and seeing a number of projects. [00:21:20] promising a lot and then not delivery. And that was a huge turning point because of [00:21:25] course, like as marketing and comms people, we know and understand that [00:21:30] how you talk about things and when you talk about it is really important, but it really showed to [00:21:35] me that is not an innate understanding that everyone has.

[00:21:39] Kelsey: And if they [00:21:40] do, that is something that can be easily overshadowed by enthusiasm [00:21:45] or at times, you know greed, trying to capitalize on specific market conditions. [00:21:50] And that really just sort of solidified my kind of almost like thesis around [00:21:55] doing all this work, which is to just try as much as you can to be [00:22:00] clear and value driven in your communications and marketing and not be a hype [00:22:05] machine.

[00:22:05] Kelsey: And I’ve seen a lot of those hype focused projects. Get [00:22:10] spectacular bumps, but then sort of just come back down because that’s really [00:22:15] not where sustainable community building happens in my mind. 

[00:22:18] Liam: Finally, I would just this, this isn’t [00:22:20] on our kind of a list, but I just like for founders looking to start a community from [00:22:25] scratch, what would you say is the best place to start with?[00:22:30] 

[00:22:30] Liam: Well, exactly. We’re building a community. If you’re literally starting from zero. Because a lot of [00:22:35] founders are going to be, they may have some great tech, they may have contacts, but in terms of an online community, what if you’ve got zero? [00:22:40] What’s the one place to start? 

[00:22:41] Kelsey: You pivot, and sort of evolve it from [00:22:45] there.

[00:22:45] Kelsey: And just don’t be afraid to reach out to those contacts if you have them. And if you don’t, start [00:22:50] hitting the pavement and getting out to some of these different events, because people are joiners and they do, you know, there’s [00:22:55] a lot of enthusiasm in this space. So don’t be, you know, don’t feel like you have to hold [00:23:00] yourself back from getting out there and making those real life connections that can translate to exponential [00:23:05] community growth online.

[00:23:07] Liam: Fantastic. Thank you very much. Just while we were talking about community, I wanted to get your [00:23:10] thoughts on that. Cause I know it’s a big topic, especially going into, or in the middle of what is now a very [00:23:15] early bull market, pre halving so Charlie, let’s [00:23:20] move over to you. We’re going to move on to specifically advice for startup founders, in our [00:23:25] proper format.

[00:23:25] Liam: So 10 tips for startup founders. Charlie, if you’d like to take us away. 

[00:23:29] Charlie: Of course, [00:23:30] of course. Okay. So these are the immunity sourced. [00:23:35] burning questions that, people really want answers to. So [00:23:40] first one, what key market trends should we consider when we’re [00:23:45] developing our go to market strategy? Like you’ve seen God knows how many businesses through coin [00:23:50] fund, you see a go to market strategy.

[00:23:52] Charlie: How do you know whether one’s. [00:23:55] Good. Or not. 

[00:23:57] Kelsey: Yeah. Absolutely. Something that I [00:24:00] really look for and, and kind of look at is, is your strategy oriented [00:24:05] towards clearly defined audience segments? Do you know who you’re even [00:24:10] trying to reach? I think that that’s a really, really important piece when you’re [00:24:15] looking at someone’s sort of strategy outline.

[00:24:18] Kelsey: And I think that that’s [00:24:20] often sort of left off. Because again, it’s that mindset of being so [00:24:25] enthusiastic about what you’re doing that you just want to share it. And I think that’s awesome, but you’ve got to harness that enthusiasm and [00:24:30] sometimes put it towards defining your audience and understanding their wants and needs so [00:24:35] you can tailor your strategy accordingly.

[00:24:37] Kelsey: And I think when it comes to looking at just [00:24:40] broader trends in the Web3 space, it’s just understanding [00:24:45] really which channels are active at that time and how the market [00:24:50] conditions could be impacting those specific channels as you pull together this strategy. Cause [00:24:55] the market does impact them.

[00:24:56] Kelsey: We want to, you know, especially from the beginning, I’m focused [00:25:00] on, you know, what people are building, what we’re doing and all of those exciting kind of more of the tech side of things [00:25:05] than price speculation. But those price, you know, those speculative, [00:25:10] groups and communities will impact the types of channels that are most active.

[00:25:14] Kelsey: [00:25:15] Engaging and vibrant during certain periods of time and it’s understanding either how to harness that [00:25:20] or how to select channels that to you Feel [00:25:25] like they will be a little more sustainable and I think lastly also when we kind of come [00:25:30] to to that a little bit is making sure that you’re not just [00:25:35] Completely putting all of your eggs in one basket when it comes to go to market strategy Like [00:25:40] don’t lean too heavily on one specific Even when it comes to a [00:25:45] community channel because if that for whatever reason goes away I mean we saw lots of I [00:25:50] feel like turbulence and ups and downs with twitter and x Make sure that there’s other [00:25:55] places for those folks to to flee to and engage That are already set [00:26:00] before something like that happens 

[00:26:02] Charlie: Absolutely.

[00:26:03] Charlie: Absolutely. I mean, [00:26:05] um when you see one of these plans What does [00:26:10] a good one look like? What, what kind of documentation do they need to have when you’re when [00:26:15] you’re looking through someone’s someone’s ghost market plan? What are the bare bones, what are the [00:26:20] basics? 

[00:26:21] Kelsey: Absolutely. And, you know, part of what I really [00:26:25] focused on when I was doing this at, at CoinFund too, is, I think it’s important for our [00:26:30] founders and teams to understand, like, you can spend weeks and weeks and weeks [00:26:35] and months and months and months on one of these plans, but is that the right thing to do?

[00:26:39] Kelsey: Not [00:26:40] necessarily. We work in such a fast paced industry that I think it is important, [00:26:45] like you said, Charlie, focusing on sort of the bare boned aspects and really what I look for is [00:26:50] kind of a document that combines a lot of different things. So I look for. [00:26:55] Do you have your audience segments clearly defined and the specific value that you’re providing [00:27:00] to each of them?

[00:27:00] Kelsey: Okay. Is your overall go to market strategy, a phase [00:27:05] by phase approach, which I think is the most. sort of digestible, especially for teams [00:27:10] that are trying to do things on their own. They might not have like a CMO, CGO, or any of us [00:27:15] like kind of marketing people on the team. And by that, I mean, it’s kind of understanding what does it mean [00:27:20] for the general audience segments that you’re targeting to become aware and what [00:27:25] type of content and pieces do we need to be creating at that level?

[00:27:29] Kelsey: Okay, [00:27:30] so maybe general awareness is broader thought leadership on, [00:27:35] here’s our thoughts on, you know, Bitcoin and what’s happening [00:27:40] next, or here’s whatever’s related to your project, but it doesn’t have to be about your project, if [00:27:45] that makes sense. Or, hey, like, here’s why current, you know, L2 scaling [00:27:50] solutions are not addressing XYZ.

[00:27:53] Kelsey: I get some ideas out there that are [00:27:55] just pitches of your project. And the next phase, when I look at these go to markets is how are you kind [00:28:00] of engaging on a slightly deeper level? This is when you can weave in a little bit more about your [00:28:05] project, what you’re doing, without asking them to take action [00:28:10] specifically when it comes to engaging with your project.

[00:28:12] Kelsey: So, you know, if you’re thinking about [00:28:15] scalability, how do you take it a little bit deeper and introduce that? You’re providing [00:28:20] maybe a novel solution there or that you are having some sort [00:28:25] of like unique community perspective on what this looks like. And sort of the third piece [00:28:30] of the go to market plan I look for is like, this is when people deeply engage.

[00:28:34] Kelsey: It would be [00:28:35] more of that educational content, woven into the strategy where it’s like, [00:28:40] here’s your how to guide to get started with us. Because you have them and you’ve taken [00:28:45] people on this unique journey and that is a really bare bones sort of example [00:28:50] with a content heavy plan. But the reason I like those types of content pieces that focus on [00:28:55] first sort of broader thought leadership going evolving into how to’s at no [00:29:00] point are you just pitching yourself.

[00:29:01] Kelsey: You’re always seeking to provide value in some way. And when [00:29:05] people get to the how to type of phase, they’re with you. And actually [00:29:10] want to be educated and understand how to do it. You’re not hitting them over the head with that way up [00:29:15] here when people are just hearing about you. Another piece of the, the go to market [00:29:20] depending on the project, and really where it’s based can be a regional [00:29:25] breakdown.

[00:29:26] Kelsey: I sometimes do include that and ask that, that founders [00:29:30] really loop that into their overall planning process, because with those audience, that [00:29:35] all important audience segments that we were talking about. Sometimes their needs and [00:29:40] wants and the problems you’re solving for them are different, even if you say you have very [00:29:45] highly technical devs as one of your segments, but your highly technical devs based in New York [00:29:50] City, have different wants and needs potentially than your highly technical devs [00:29:55] that are based in India.

[00:29:56] Kelsey: So really understanding how you [00:30:00] position yourself and draw them through this sort of journey with you as [00:30:05] part of the go to market strategy is, is very important. And again, it sounds, I think a [00:30:10] little overwhelming at first, but when you break it down into these simple phases with these [00:30:15] simple buckets where you first establish your understanding of the audience and why you’re [00:30:20] doing anything for them and what problems you’re solving, 

[00:30:22] 

[00:30:22] Kelsey: Then outline a clear and simple [00:30:25] journey, weave in some regions if you need to or want to, if that’s relevant for your project.

[00:30:29] Kelsey: You [00:30:30] have a pretty good starting point for what you need to do, and what you’re really [00:30:35] testing against. So that’s another really, I think, important part, not, you know, [00:30:40] you have to have some initial data to test if your, your strategy is working, but I think [00:30:45] designing everything with testing and iteration in mind is [00:30:50] essential.

[00:30:50] Charlie: That was a very complete answer. [00:30:55] I tried. I thought like three or four questions over the course of that. I mean, one of the [00:31:00] pieces that I have to sort of put in is, and something that [00:31:05] basically quote Liam on, you’ve got to deliver value first. So it’s got to be [00:31:10] that, that Gary Vaynerchuk book you keep bringing up chap which is Jab, Jab, [00:31:15] Jab, Right Hook.

[00:31:16] Charlie: Like you can’t just go to market and just say buy my stuff. [00:31:20] You’ve, you’ve actually got to start a conversation, have the, [00:31:25] bring the potential prospect on a journey or bring your audience or potential audience member on a [00:31:30] journey that’s like, Hey, I’m going to really read your piece, understand what it is that you guys are about, [00:31:35] and then.

[00:31:38] Charlie: You know, do I understand the [00:31:40] need or the problem or, or the wider sort of reading around the issue before you’re like, [00:31:45] okay, buy my stuff, you know, like there is, there is that, that, that’s, that’s what they say, which [00:31:50] is like provide value, provide value, provide value. And then right hook with the ask, [00:31:55] is that, have I got that right there?

[00:31:58] Liam: Yeah, yeah, no, exactly. [00:32:00] From my point of view, yeah. [00:32:05] 

[00:32:05] Charlie: Do you agree, Kelsey? 

[00:32:08] Kelsey: Yeah. I, I think that [00:32:10] that value oriented approaches is key. [00:32:15] You know, you want to be offering something as often and as much as [00:32:20] possible in my mind, and I think sometimes it can seem like that [00:32:25] something has to be some sort of prize or financial incentive, but that something [00:32:30] is valuable content.

[00:32:31] Kelsey: It’s education, it’s camaraderie in a [00:32:35] community. There’s a lot of forms that can take, and you should just be endlessly oriented [00:32:40] towards that over specific ask. 

[00:32:43] Charlie: All right, so we’re going to, [00:32:45] we’re, we’re conscious of time. We’re going to move on to the second question. We could talk about this for about 40 [00:32:50] minutes.

[00:32:51] Charlie: This is something Liam and I have talked about at nauseum which is product [00:32:55] validation. And we’re always saying, validate your product before you start [00:33:00] building. Make sure that there’s a market for it. Make sure that people actually want it before you’re, [00:33:05] before you fully commit into, into building an entire product.

[00:33:09] Charlie: [00:33:10] I mean, what methods, firstly, do you agree with that? [00:33:15] 

[00:33:15] Kelsey: Yes. I think that it’s important to [00:33:20] understand you know why you’re doing something, and if there’s any [00:33:25] actual need for it or need for it, you know, within the relatively near future because [00:33:30] with how quickly Web3 and the overall ecosystem evolves, [00:33:35] you need to be able to do this very quickly.

[00:33:38] Kelsey: So I’ve seen [00:33:40] different ways of approaching this and some are much more in depth than others, but I think [00:33:45] that if you’re Potentially, you know, slightly overwhelmed [00:33:50] potential founder or team really engaging with other [00:33:55] communities and. Getting people to weigh in. Maybe you don’t have a [00:34:00] full, strong Web3 network yet, but getting yourself to [00:34:05] some of those community events, getting yourself into some of those communities, maybe on [00:34:10] Discord or Telegram, and testing out some of your thoughts and ideas, [00:34:15] and sort of seeing what resonates.

[00:34:16] Kelsey: Because those are very specific, sort of targeted audiences to [00:34:20] bounce ideas off of. And that can be a great way to at least get some initial data around what’s [00:34:25] Is your idea interesting? Obviously you don’t have to go into the full exactly [00:34:30] how you would do it and give all of your projects away, [00:34:35] but I think that you should be. 

[00:34:37] Charlie: Yeah, not full open kimono. 

[00:34:38] Kelsey: Exactly. You don’t have to share, you’re like, here’s [00:34:40] a full outline of my plan, here’s my go to market potentially, like, all of [00:34:45] that. But it’s just I don’t be afraid to ask and have those [00:34:50] conversations and even if the reception isn’t what you thought, this gives you a lot of data to [00:34:55] either pursue other communities and testing and asking some of these [00:35:00] questions or pivot your idea ever so slightly.

[00:35:03] Kelsey: I was, [00:35:05] I think I was on a panel, maybe last, and I was talking to an investor last week at one of the events, and an investor was saying [00:35:10] that, you know, a lot of these projects when they’re at this phase, and having some of these [00:35:15] conversations, there’ll be a lot of no’s and pushback and they’ll tweak one tiny [00:35:20] detail around their thinking or what they want to accomplish, and suddenly they have something and kind of can [00:35:25] move into the next phase. So I think it’s important to keep that in mind and, and there’s a degree of [00:35:30] flexibility that I do think you should have as part of this phase to just understand what could [00:35:35] be resonating and what might not be, and that there’s maybe something that you just haven’t thought of, that’s the [00:35:40] tiniest thing that can take you to the next level.

[00:35:44] Liam: I think we, we definitely [00:35:45] seeing that at the moment with this cycle, I think around Bitcoin DePin, [00:35:50] AI, Real World Assets, I think these are all things that we’ve seen people pivot [00:35:55] more into. I know it’s slightly off topic, but Theta Network I [00:36:00] learned the other day is now an AI infrastructure company.

[00:36:03] Liam: They were purely video [00:36:05] streaming and now they’re doing AI compute. I say it’s all the same [00:36:10] infrastructure. But they’re just going, Oh, but we could do this for AI as well as video. [00:36:15] And all of a sudden it sounds interesting to people again. 

[00:36:19] Kelsey: [00:36:20] Exactly. I think that you raise a really important point. It’s no part of this product [00:36:25] validation phase, but just also in general, understanding what the current markets [00:36:30] buzzwords are, and really digging into, if you think they have longevity or not, like AI, [00:36:35] I personally think does.

[00:36:37] Kelsey: But making sure that you’re really. [00:36:40] actually integrating that idea or concept into what you’re doing on a product [00:36:45] level instead of just sticking it on as an afterthought. It’s, it’s really [00:36:50] important because I remember at, it was that coin sign, but just seeing projects, something [00:36:55] trends and all of a sudden everyone is whatever they were doing before and AI, you’re like, [00:37:00] wait, is that actually AI?

[00:37:01] Kelsey: Or how did you suddenly be able, how are you able to put this together? And like [00:37:05] basically overnight. But a lot of projects are, you know, they had that. [00:37:10] opportunity and it was already almost a holistic piece of what they were doing. 

[00:37:14] Liam: I get it [00:37:15] all the time. Press releases being sent out as a journalist. I get like, [00:37:20] so with AI being all the rage right now and Nick Clegg at Meta saying such and [00:37:25] such, here’s my decks.

[00:37:26] Liam: And it’s like, right, right [00:37:30] interested, well don’t forget me interested, but this has got nothing to do with the first two [00:37:35] paragraphs. 

[00:37:36] Kelsey: Exactly. And what you don’t want to do is kind of try to trick [00:37:40] people, you know, like don’t just kind of like. bait and switch, [00:37:45] when it comes to these buzzwords because, you know, you don’t want to frustrate the [00:37:50] journalists.

[00:37:50] Kelsey: You don’t want to frustrate the community. And you really want to just try to build a [00:37:55] strong foundation that feels authentic and trustworthy because not having trust in [00:38:00] this industry is not going to work out for you. It’s something you need to be [00:38:05] thinking of through every phase in my mind. And you know, bait and switch is not a great tactic for that, [00:38:10] building that.

[00:38:11] Liam: And especially as technology develops, because, So [00:38:15] people that are looking to market the products, obviously a lot of them are trying to market to people like myself who are writing articles, [00:38:20] and I now have technology that filters every email that ever comes through before it’s my [00:38:25] inbox. I get to decide whether to accept or block that sender forever.

[00:38:29] Liam: So [00:38:30] when there’s, when a pr, and I’ve got to the point now where if someone sends me one of those emails, I just hit block and that’s [00:38:35] it. They never hit my inbox again. 

[00:38:36] Kelsey: Wow, I think that’s an important point because these these types of things have [00:38:40] lasting consequences and for any founders that are not as or teams that are not as [00:38:45] familiar with the value of You know journalists and making sure [00:38:50] that they are interested in hearing from you that value is immense, especially when it comes [00:38:55] to building that sort of trust that I I mentioned But they’re not going to write about things not [00:39:00] to speak for you but they’re not going to write about things that are just Fluff or have tacked on [00:39:05] buzzwords.

[00:39:05] Kelsey: They’re looking for something real and engaging for their audiences that they’re looking after as well [00:39:10] So don’t burn those bridges And really be mindful of that starting early on [00:39:15] Because a lot of your marketing and what you’re doing should be aimed towards towards these journalists as well [00:39:20] 

[00:39:20] Liam: And if anyone’s thinking that the way around it is which some of them are definitely starting to do which [00:39:25] Pr people every day.

[00:39:27] Liam: I’ve got one pr company that sends [00:39:30] emails from a new person at the company You Every day pretty much and what’s the point where it’s like, well, I have [00:39:35] two options. I can block the email or I can block the domain. I never blocked the domain because I’m [00:39:40] like, I’m not going to let one PR person ruin it for the entire company, but there’s [00:39:45] one company at the moment that’s on my list for if they send another one, the whole PR company has been blocked.[00:39:50] 

[00:39:50] Liam: So like, I think that whole kind of it’s like gray hat SEO and [00:39:55] gray hat marketing that used to be a big thing kind of like 15 years ago in the, on the internet. [00:40:00] I think those sort of technologies now, like I completely agree. We [00:40:05] value transparency and honesty and sort of, you have to genuinely be interested, [00:40:10] and find a way to do it.

[00:40:11] Liam: Otherwise you’ll get found out. 

[00:40:14] Kelsey: Exactly. [00:40:15] That’s wild with the new PR people every day. I hadn’t heard about that. 

[00:40:18] Liam: Yeah, it’s the, I [00:40:20] mean, unless they’re just growing rapidly, but it’s like, because I’ve blocked [00:40:25] several people from this company. And then I keep getting emails from the company. So it’s like, well, [00:40:30] these are all new people that apparently.

[00:40:32] Kelsey: Oh my goodness. Wow. That’s something else. So [00:40:35] yeah, everyone don’t do not do that. 

[00:40:38] Charlie: No, no bots. All [00:40:40] right. Circling back. Product market fits, again, huge question, [00:40:45] how, how do we best identify and test for product market fit in Web3 [00:40:50] industry? 

[00:40:51] Charlie: We can seek validation by going to our community. We can [00:40:55] definitely get out there and don’t open the full kimono, but say, look, this is what I’m intending on doing.[00:41:00] 

[00:41:00] Charlie: But what, what would you consider to be a good test? Like it’s, [00:41:05] you know, I think the old adage was no one related to, [00:41:10] or in your friend’s set, 10 people that said, I would buy this. I think that’s from the old, the old [00:41:15] Web2 standards was that you potentially already collected money for it. [00:41:20] Is it similar in Web3?

[00:41:22] Charlie: I know we’re building a lot and then, [00:41:25] you know, living on funding, but how, how does, how do you [00:41:30] see that at test product market fit? 

[00:41:33] Kelsey: Yeah, I think an [00:41:35] important test is something that you would sort of sit down and initially do yourself, [00:41:40] especially after having some of those Conversations we mentioned with community and [00:41:45] anyone that we’re really you can that type of chat with is Breaking down how [00:41:50] you’re actually solving a problem.

[00:41:52] Kelsey: So I see things that are [00:41:55] Being built that are cool, but cool will only take you [00:42:00] but so far if it’s not actually solving anything And [00:42:05] this is another opportunity for you even as part of your go to [00:42:10] market document Do you break down specifically as part of that [00:42:15] audience related exercise. How are you solving a problem for each of those [00:42:20] specific audience segments with what you’re doing?

[00:42:22] Kelsey: And kind of, I think we’ll get into a [00:42:25] little bit more of kind of a competitor analysis down the line, but are other folks [00:42:30] already doing this? Cause I’ve also seen that in the past too, where there was this [00:42:35] great idea and it was, you know, there’s, it’s truly a great idea, but there’s already [00:42:40] a project that’s been working on it for years.

[00:42:42] Kelsey: And that doesn’t mean that you can’t [00:42:45] innovate, but you do need to understand what it means to have. Your main competition be a [00:42:50] project that’s been established for three, five years already and has a robust [00:42:55] community. You have to make sure that you are really approaching this in a unique way or that you’re [00:43:00] leading on a lot of other sort of value oriented marketing and calm channels to [00:43:05] sort of make up for that, that massive gap.

[00:43:08] Kelsey: So I encourage people to [00:43:10] really kind of dig into that quite a bit more. I think that, you know, [00:43:15] People can also sort of parse out those, and this applies later in the [00:43:20] process as well, but you know, the SWOT analysis, as you can [00:43:25] see, I’m a big fan of some of these, like, very simple ways of breaking down these, at times, [00:43:30] overwhelming and complex concepts, just because I’ve worked with so many teens where maybe it’s one person, [00:43:35] maybe it’s two people.

[00:43:35] Kelsey: Like, how much are you going to be able to really pour into this, and how [00:43:40] much do you really understand how to approach, Approach things from an audience perspective. So [00:43:45] if you run something like that, I just encourage folks to use a high degree of [00:43:50] Kind of personal integrity and honesty. Don’t deceive yourself.[00:43:55] 

[00:43:55] Kelsey: Like if you think something is cool and people would like it, [00:44:00] really challenge yourself to break that down in sort of this product market fit phase and really [00:44:05] understand like, And be able to articulate what specifically it is doing for each [00:44:10] of these groups. And if you’re unable to do that, I really think it’s time to give things a little more thought.

[00:44:14] Kelsey: [00:44:15] I’m not saying that things, a need won’t arise down the line, but that should also [00:44:20] be something that you can clearly articulate, and really sort of [00:44:25] start reassessing if it’s just because it seems sparkly and cool, but you can’t [00:44:30] articulate anything else about. what value it will be providing down the line.

[00:44:34] Kelsey: Because I [00:44:35] guarantee if you need investors, they are going to be asking, you know, why [00:44:40] this needs to exist and really what their money is going towards. So best think about it [00:44:45] early on. 

[00:44:46] Charlie: With respect to being right at the beginning of your [00:44:50] journey to build on what you’ve just said, Are there any, I mean, [00:44:55] I don’t know if there’s an industry standard, but are there any like key KPIs?

[00:44:58] Charlie: Like I, I [00:45:00] know this many people like the idea, therefore I should pursue it. That is [00:45:05] there an inflection point in thinking or the way in which you approach the market that recommend [00:45:10] our viewers 

[00:45:11] Kelsey: Yeah, I think it’s kind of important to understand, [00:45:15] to a degree, like, what your total addressable market is.

[00:45:19] Kelsey: Like, if you’re doing [00:45:20] something really niche for, realistically, your audience segment are, like, seasoned [00:45:25] Web3 builders and developers, and you have a core group. [00:45:30] Potentially already that you think will immediately engage. And then there’s groups that you’re hoping to convert, [00:45:35] understand kind of what that broader number looks like.

[00:45:38] Kelsey: And you can start breaking that [00:45:40] down by, for this instance, there’s information and the number of course fluctuates. It’s kind of tricky to [00:45:45] nail down at times. We’re always looking for better data. But [00:45:50] you know, understanding, okay. X number of Web3 developers exist. [00:45:55] So realistically. What percentage do you think actually [00:46:00] has this type of problem and dig into the communities kind of scan?

[00:46:04] Kelsey: I [00:46:05] feel like online are there are there articles? Are there different sort of quotes? Are there [00:46:10] tidbits? Are you seeing events and conferences addressing this topic? Because I [00:46:15] do think that although I wouldn’t commit since projects vary so much and maybe Some projects would [00:46:20] only need to be like, okay, I think three percent of You My, you know, addressable [00:46:25] market would need to engage with this project to make it sort of viable.

[00:46:30] Kelsey: [00:46:30] But understanding what that specific number needs to be to actually [00:46:35] survive as a project. But secondly, like on a more granular level, if you’re like, [00:46:40] okay, I got people from three of the top Web3 communities that are filled with [00:46:45] people that I think would engage with my product. That can be a solid indicator.

[00:46:50] Kelsey: [00:46:50] I think it’s hard, like I said, to have a set number without [00:46:55] really diving into what the project is and, and how [00:47:00] it really would be operating in the space. But those are a couple ways of looking at [00:47:05] things from a metric standpoint. Another is, understanding, this [00:47:10] requires some tooling at times, which I don’t always recommend a founder or [00:47:15] team get early on, but there’s a lot of ways of measuring sort of share a voice around [00:47:20] specific topics across say Twitter X, even kind [00:47:25] of general what’s happening in Web3 news.

[00:47:27] Kelsey: And if there’s a specific. You know, [00:47:30] amount of momentum around this conversation that you [00:47:35] need to be a part of for your project. I think that’s a really helpful indicator of whether or not your idea [00:47:40] is maybe viable, whether the need is there and whether at least you could kind of capitalize [00:47:45] on this initial moment I know it’s a few different ways of approaching it.

[00:47:48] Kelsey: And it can sound a little [00:47:50] bit challenging, but really to kind of break it down, you know, talk to people and ask. If [00:47:55] you’re able to connect with someone who has tools that can measure share of voice around these [00:48:00] topics, do, although I wouldn’t suggest allocating a lot of your budget initially [00:48:05] towards that, and really understand your total addressable [00:48:10] market, and if it’s teeny tiny, you need to understand, like, if you need to get every [00:48:15] single person in this market to make your project valuable, maybe it [00:48:20] will not necessarily work out, because getting 100 percent of any segment isn’t particularly [00:48:25] realistic.

[00:48:25] Charlie: Absolutely. That’s an excellent answer. I would say my iron in the fire [00:48:30] went through, through my experience it’s usually been, so TAM, your total [00:48:35] addressable market needs to be over a billion dollars. Generally [00:48:40] VCs don’t care if it’s, if it’s not big enough, basically. [00:48:45] So there’s the TAM, SOM and SAM, so it’s your serviceable [00:48:50] addressable market and your serviceable obtainable market and that’s what you’re referring to there, [00:48:55] which is, How much of the market you can address immediately, which is the short term, just some, or [00:49:00] some is what you’re willing to go after, the obtainable, and then, your total [00:49:05] addressable market.

[00:49:07] Charlie: But yeah, it’s an excellent [00:49:10] answer. Right. With that said, let’s accelerate a little bit. We might do a bit, a [00:49:15] bit of a faster round. Mainly because the time, but the next [00:49:20] question is audience building. What strategies would you say you found [00:49:25] most effective? Obviously, we showed you and coin fund.

[00:49:28] Charlie: You’ve seen [00:49:30] communities grow communities, Wayne. In, in, in, [00:49:35] we’re looking at right at the beginning of our journeys. What, what strategies have you found to be [00:49:40] most effective in growing a dedicated community? So, so maybe not the. [00:49:45] My NFT sharing community, that’s, we will avoid those, but, [00:49:50] you’re looking to build sort of a dedicated community and audience in the web free space.[00:49:55] 

[00:49:55] Liam: Yeah, and obviously, like we talked previously about when you start from zero, but I [00:50:00] think what’s really useful is a lot of people have at least their own personal networks that they can bring in. So once [00:50:05] you’ve got some sort of, you’ve got off the ground, how do you then grow it? [00:50:10] 

[00:50:10] Kelsey: Absolutely. I always start with, [00:50:15] again, outline it like we talked about earlier, you know, what are you trying to accomplish, what’s working, [00:50:20] what’s not working, and test and understand what success looks like from a community [00:50:25] perspective every single week.

[00:50:26] Kelsey: So if you need, you know, 30 percent growth week over week, [00:50:30] you need to understand, like, Is that happening? Is that not happening? But really kind of in [00:50:35] a in a bigger picture piece an important one is you have to recognize [00:50:40] and foster Sort of brand and community affinity and [00:50:45] by that I mean is there someone in your community that is really stepping up?

[00:50:48] Kelsey: Is there someone that’s actually trying to [00:50:50] answer questions for the other community members? Is there someone that? is putting their, raising [00:50:55] their hand to organize meetups from an organic perspective. [00:51:00] Think about designing a program to really recognize those individuals because the ideal [00:51:05] thing and what you can do to sort of accelerate your community growth is you really want those [00:51:10] evangelists.

[00:51:10] Kelsey: And people just on a basic level want to feel appreciated. So show your [00:51:15] appreciation and figure out what way is appropriate for your community. [00:51:20] You know, I think this also kind of leads us into a conversation around like intrinsic [00:51:25] and extrinsic motivators, you know, where you don’t want to just be like, Hey, I’m recognizing you [00:51:30] by sending you 10 or, you know, sending you some ETH or doing this or that.

[00:51:34] Kelsey: You really want to [00:51:35] recognize by things that bring people in closer, whether it’s like a really. [00:51:40] Awesome curated box of swag that’s actually useful and not just like a [00:51:45] old t shirt. Or if it’s access to special events that bring the [00:51:50] community in or side dinner there’s a lot of ways to do this whether it’s kind of first access [00:51:55] or They are able to weigh in on the next sort of wave of improvements or [00:52:00] features Make people feel special and they’ll keep really showing up [00:52:05] for you.

[00:52:05] Kelsey: And I think that that’s important to sort of weave in throughout. It has to come from a really sort of [00:52:10] authentic standpoint, which is why it’s great if it comes from a found founder or [00:52:15] founding member of the team because they’re in it with you and they’re appreciating what you’ve [00:52:20] created. So show your appreciation back.

[00:52:21] Kelsey: It can’t be a one way street. So that’s really important. [00:52:25] Another one is I think sometimes we forget this, especially when we get wrapped up in. [00:52:30] Marketing and you’re representing a brand and you know people the end game is you want [00:52:35] folks to connect with the brand the project What you’re doing is be a person [00:52:40] like don’t talk to people like they’re the customer or they’re the audience [00:52:45] segment It’s a huge Pet peeve of mine and you actually see numbers starting to drop [00:52:50] off when even I’ve seen Founders or CEOs published community [00:52:55] letters and it says, you know We sound that the customers like this and it’s like [00:53:00] no you you found that You all appreciate this or that the [00:53:05] community is thriving as a result of this don’t act like you’re [00:53:10] Above them or different from them or use overly complex or [00:53:15] annoying Marketing speak.

[00:53:17] Kelsey: I mean that’s reserved for internal for the teams. [00:53:20] We’re breaking down the audience segment That is not something that is external facing It just makes it [00:53:25] seem like you’re kind of a robot marketer business person and not a real person [00:53:30] And people want to engage with other real people so don’t, don’t sound like that.

[00:53:34] Kelsey: And I think connecting [00:53:35] to that and have a little fun with it. I mean, we’re doing really big things in the space. [00:53:40] It’s really exciting that industry is maturing. So it can feel [00:53:45] serious, especially certain projects, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t have a little bit of fun. And that [00:53:50] can be through like colorful, engaging branding.

[00:53:52] Kelsey: It can be through your conversational [00:53:55] style. It can be through means. Really. If [00:54:00] you’re enjoying being there and having fun with it, even when it is a lot of work, other people [00:54:05] will too. You don’t want to go somewhere, like kind of if you think about a party or a [00:54:10] room, you want to go to the party where people seem like they’re enjoying themselves and the host is enjoying themselves [00:54:15] instead of the party where the host is running around clearly wildly stressed out.

[00:54:19] Kelsey: [00:54:20] And maybe just a couple people are having a good time. It sets a very different tone and I think it’s easy to [00:54:25] forget that because often we’re a little bit overworked and maybe a little bit tired at the end of the day, but [00:54:30] you’re really there for a reason and have a nice time with it. And don’t [00:54:35] forget kind of lose, don’t lose sight of that piece.

[00:54:38] Liam: I think when you’ve got [00:54:40] people like Franklin Templeton and VanEck, posting on X with their [00:54:45] degen, intern accounts, and sharing [00:54:50] memes, I think when you’ve got institutions like that having fun, it kind of shows that, yeah, there’s room to [00:54:55] have some fun and find your audience. 

[00:54:58] Kelsey: Exactly. It’s not that suddenly, [00:55:00] you know, No one is going to take you serious.

[00:55:02] Kelsey: It’s almost like partially the language of [00:55:05] Web3 and if you take all the fun out of it, you you’re not really left [00:55:10] with A whole lot when it comes to the community building or people really wanting to come with you on the journey. [00:55:15] 

[00:55:15] Charlie: All right um On to question five user acquisition [00:55:20] Um again, I know i’m putting you on the spot here kelsey, but could you share some [00:55:25] successful tactics or channels for acquiring new users?

[00:55:29] Charlie: Other [00:55:30] than the obvious that our viewers might not have thought of. 

[00:55:34] Kelsey: Yeah, [00:55:35] I think that User acquisition from a holistic perspective is really [00:55:40] important. And by that, I mean, show up as a person, like we talked about, you can make some [00:55:45] videos like this is great having some video content out there and then make the most of [00:55:50] everything that you do.

[00:55:51] Kelsey: So, and I think you guys are fantastic at this as well, [00:55:55] but it is that you can make video clips, you can then engage in [00:56:00] conversations that are in line with the videos you make. So just get there. The, the mileage out of what you’re doing instead [00:56:05] of looking at each thing as a separate initiative.

[00:56:08] Kelsey: Everything should connect and [00:56:10] flow together, and I think that that’s really important. Another thing is something I was thinking about the other [00:56:15] day, is, Dickie is stickie, like have, like a fun shtick, maybe? [00:56:20] Like a, OK. Joke or something colorful and interesting, that [00:56:25] you can be known for. And that can mean something like at ConsenSys, [00:56:30] we had a massive activation in a garden where all of the portfolio [00:56:35] companies, which were called Stokes, had these Giant colorful creatures that represented [00:56:40] them and it was this whole interactive experience and that ended up being really memorable [00:56:45] or at Shardeum We’ve we’re working in and got part of a campaign out [00:56:50] where we solve the trilemma I won’t get too much into that, but you know security [00:56:55] scalability decentralization and we turned each of those into a [00:57:00] Creature and we have the fun swag and the stickers and the idea is you can catch all [00:57:05] three almost like they are Pokemon because they solve the trilemma and that sort of thing has just [00:57:10] kind of stuck with people even at times It can kind of feel a little bit [00:57:15] silly or cheesy But it works for the specific audiences and it shows that you can have a [00:57:20] little fun and and that’s really what sticks And then I think also we can’t [00:57:25] emphasize enough the Educate, so educate as much as you [00:57:30] can, and understand that a lot of times people will have to see something seven, eight times [00:57:35] before they become like a user of your project or whatever you’re doing.[00:57:40] 

[00:57:40] Kelsey: So just keep putting things out there that are value oriented. [00:57:45] And eventually it will convert, but just have a little bit of patience too. [00:57:50] I know we’re all so excited to see those numbers bump up and we were, you know, Eagerly [00:57:55] checking on the number of website visits or, or followers on Twitter, but it will take [00:58:00] time before folks even sort of dip their toes into that part of the journey.

[00:58:04] Kelsey: So [00:58:05] understanding that those initial efforts aren’t in vain and really sticking with some [00:58:10] ideas and concepts around what you’re doing, for a set period of time before [00:58:15] kind of measuring and assessing whether or not to pivot. 

[00:58:18] Charlie: That’s an excellent answer. [00:58:20] I think, yeah, it’s a page out of Steve Jobs book, isn’t it?[00:58:25] 

[00:58:26] Charlie: Education is the best form of marketing, and I completely [00:58:30] agree. is 

[00:58:31] Liam: Sticky is sticky sticky. [00:58:35] Yeah, I was like That was the idea Is the sticky sticky? 

[00:58:39] Kelsey: Yeah, [00:58:40] exactly. I was like that kind of works and I was like, oh, it’s kind of stupid And I was like it really actually just is [00:58:45] exactly what it is also so, I mean it’s stuck in my head for sure and I was like, you know [00:58:50] what if it’s if it’s kind of annoying, but easy to remember thing that [00:58:55] can 

[00:58:55] Kelsey: get stuck in someone’s head.

[00:58:56] Kelsey: Yeah. You know, then you can kind of [00:59:00] use a little bit of that thinking when you’re considering user acquisition, because if you’re just [00:59:05] kind of, I see so much content, the websites, the educational materials, everything [00:59:10] looks exactly the same. It reads the same. It feels the same, but just think about what is [00:59:15] your little thing that you can be doing across all the channels that it shows that it’s you [00:59:20] and can kind of

[00:59:20] Kelsey: be a little more fun or humanize what you’re doing to a degree. 

[00:59:24] Liam: Well, that brings us [00:59:25] perfectly onto a point six, which is competitive analysis. So how should, [00:59:30] founders approach a competitive analysis? How do you look at the [00:59:35] marketplace and then, identify where you’re different? 

[00:59:38] Kelsey: I think this ties into [00:59:40] some of those other pieces when we’re thinking about go to market.

[00:59:43] Kelsey: And a lot [00:59:45] of the steps that we look at there, I would look at, you Folks that are projects that [00:59:50] are really trying to solve a similar problem. I would look at projects that [00:59:55] are doing a, taking a slightly different approach [01:00:00] to the same problem. And by that I mean, you know, there’s groups that are going to be trying to do it [01:00:05] potentially exactly the way that you’re trying to do it.

[01:00:07] Kelsey: And then there’s going to be projects and groups that are trying to do it. [01:00:10] But with a little bit of twist, and then I would look at any sort of [01:00:15] larger, say in the L1 space, very well established, you know, [01:00:20] L1s if we’re looking at like Bitcoin and Ethereum versus some of these other different types of [01:00:25] projects and understanding what’s working well for them, um.

[01:00:28] Kelsey: This is where those some of [01:00:30] those tools can also come in in handy, depending on how much you want to invest, or if you have someone that [01:00:35] has access to something like that, where you can determine a little bit more around share of voice for [01:00:40] each of those competitors and projects. And that has been really helpful when I’ve done these types of assessments [01:00:45] in the past, but I do think it really comes down to also whether it’s one of those SWOT [01:00:50] analysis is like I mentioned, or just clearly defining [01:00:55] relative to each of those competitors.

[01:00:56] Kelsey: How you are doing something a little bit different [01:01:00] and how you’re going to reach the Audience that they already have and convert [01:01:05] them and really defining that clearly on paper and to [01:01:10] yourself Before moving forward too much because or else I think that You [01:01:15] really are going to miss a lot of gaps when it comes to Positioning yourself in the [01:01:20] best possible way And you’re potentially doing something that is [01:01:25] already has like a fully saturated Kind of done and done community [01:01:30] and audience.

[01:01:31] Kelsey: That’s not to say that trying isn’t you know [01:01:35] A bad, you know, is a bad thing, but I do think breaking it down in that way and [01:01:40] having that kind of honesty with yourself before moving forward is really, [01:01:45] really important. I do think this is another way where you can kind of start digging through and [01:01:50] identifying since a lot of these conversations also happen at these larger Web3 [01:01:55] events.

[01:01:55] Kelsey: Going through and understanding who are the projects that are also consistently listed [01:02:00] as the speakers who’s spending money to get out there and really wrapping that [01:02:05] into your analysis is really important because if you see that, Hey, [01:02:10] it’s a mirrors out there or even like a salon, whoever you’re sort of [01:02:15] looking at, making sure that you understand how they’re [01:02:20] addressing this type of audience and what type of really budget and [01:02:25] everything that they’re, Spending to be there, is an important part of the overall [01:02:30] analysis.

[01:02:30] Kelsey: So lastly, I would just make sure that this is an important step [01:02:35] and just break it down clearly and don’t run an infinite competitive analysis [01:02:40] because I’ve seen that it’s easy to get swept up because there’s a lot of overlap, [01:02:45] most likely with a lot of different projects. Don’t need to include every [01:02:50] single possible one that you can think of.

[01:02:53] Kelsey: And in a perfect world, we could, [01:02:55] but realistically, by the time you’re done doing all of that, an opportunity might have passed. So [01:03:00] I just recommend doing all of this with a little bit of speed and efficiency in [01:03:05] mind and not getting too mired down. Just think of as like quick, [01:03:10] precise, Understanding exactly the core pieces that you need to when it comes to this [01:03:15] and how these other projects are relating to your audience that you’re after and then assessing from [01:03:20] there.

[01:03:21] Liam: So once you’ve established that, what, what [01:03:25] the key parts of a good value proposition, but the key components, I [01:03:30] always like, our friend Ross talks about looking at what will be possible [01:03:35] when for the, for the user, what, what, what’s your main key [01:03:40] thing you’re looking for in a value proposition?

[01:03:42] Kelsey: Yeah, I really like that too. The [01:03:45] what is possible when approach I think is fantastic and Really [01:03:50] just starting with what are you, I mean, honestly, it’s kind of that just phrased [01:03:55] slightly differently. Like what are you doing for the audience and [01:04:00] how, without getting too mired in the details. So, you know, [01:04:05] what problem are you solving and quickly how, like what’s the difference in [01:04:10] what you’re doing?

[01:04:10] Kelsey: Is it that you’re solving for, you [01:04:15] know, a scalability challenge and you’re using. Auto scaling or [01:04:20] depending on the audience. You have to tweak things a little bit, but I say, you know Just really [01:04:25] keep it very very simple at that level and easy to articulate [01:04:30] Just like you know, I think you said your friend ross Mentioned I think the nail on the head [01:04:35] there. 

[01:04:35] Liam: So so you you agree then that it should be less about kind of [01:04:40] The the specific product or service that you have and what your [01:04:45] users will be able to do once they’re using your product So 

[01:04:48] Kelsey: Exactly.

[01:04:48] Kelsey: It’s, it’s what you can do [01:04:50] with it. Like what, again, kind of the theme of our conversation, what value is it providing? [01:04:55] 

[01:04:55] Kelsey: So just like all of your marketing and content and all of that should be providing value, [01:05:00] focus on a product level with the value that it is actually providing to you, your [01:05:05] key audience, and, and we can work from there.

[01:05:08] Liam: Okay. So steaming rolling through the [01:05:10] back end of this section. Once you’ve got that in sort of [01:05:15] lay it out, you know, okay, this is the value that I’m bringing. What are the marketing channels that you think are the most effective in [01:05:20] Web3? How should you prioritize them and are there any that you should just avoid?[01:05:25] 

[01:05:26] Kelsey: Yeah, I think that discord is really strong. [01:05:30] I’ll just sort of go through. So we have those social channels, you know, we’re like thinking [01:05:35] discord, you’re thinking like Twitter X. There’s lots of new, [01:05:40] I feel like channels popping up all the time, but I find that sometimes [01:05:45] teams and founders can get stretched a little too thin when you try to [01:05:50] saturate every single channel you could think of at the same time.

[01:05:53] Kelsey: Another channel that I [01:05:55] think is kind of sneakily impactful at times is LinkedIn, depending on [01:06:00] your project. And then do not underestimate YouTube and [01:06:05] your blog. So ideally, all of these connect together. [01:06:10] So what I would say, and also a personal channel, I never want to forget that, for the founder [01:06:15] or someone on the team.

[01:06:16] Kelsey: So you need that human channel and you need your brand channels. 

[01:06:19] Charlie: Yeah, [01:06:20] people buy from people. Absolutely. 

[01:06:21] Kelsey: Exactly. So don’t forget that, you know, as a founder, [01:06:25] as a founding team member, whoever you are in the specific project, [01:06:30] it is key. People want to hear from the founder. So it should really be a [01:06:35] really fantastic interaction between all of the different core channels.

[01:06:39] Kelsey: And that means [01:06:40] say you draft a blog post, on the current state of [01:06:45] decentralization, you know, in Web3, I’m not saying that you should write that specific one. It might be a [01:06:50] little dry, but just as an example, and, And then you [01:06:55] have a quick video clip that’s a Q& A of you and someone from the community talking about [01:07:00] saved and centralization.

[01:07:01] Kelsey: And then on X or Twitter, You [01:07:05] have little clips of the video, you have some pieces from the blog, it all feeds together [01:07:10] and this would be, say, for a project that’s focused to some degree, of course, on decentralization. [01:07:15] And then you as a founder or team member would post your own thoughts or [01:07:20] opinions and then be reposted on, you know, Twitter, X by the main brand account. [01:07:25] And that way you’re pushing forward a unified perspective on something that [01:07:30] is relevant to the industry. So it’s really, to me, not even as [01:07:35] much the specific channels, although they are important. It’s how you can weave them [01:07:40] together into something that feels cohesive across a few different ways that people [01:07:45] Attain and digest information and by that I mean blog long form YouTube [01:07:50] video and then whatever social channel which is usually quick bites and repurpose [01:07:55] pieces And then of course that human element where it’s an actual person on the team [01:08:00] posting and commenting that then can be shared on the broader Channel and those sorts of connections [01:08:05] are what i’ve seen the most successful when it comes to those marketing channel usage There’s a [01:08:10] lot of times we just focus on one or another.

[01:08:11] Charlie: Yeah, I, I’d make sure that person, whoever you choose to be [01:08:15] the face of your business. It’s where you do your business for the long term. 

[01:08:19] Kelsey: Yes, that [01:08:20] is important. Yeah, it’s helpful if that person is the founder because [01:08:25] they will be around usually. But that’s a really good point. 

[01:08:28] Liam: Okay, well, [01:08:30] the last two sections we’ve got for this, something that I see as being [01:08:35] very important, which is partnerships and collaborations.

[01:08:37] Liam: I think we see probably more than, [01:08:40] In any other space I’ve worked in the amount of time people are willing to [01:08:45] give just to help connect to the projects together for a bit of the space, but then just in general, [01:08:50] partnering your project officially with another project that [01:08:55] seems to be something you see a lot.

[01:08:56] Liam: Does it work? 

[01:08:57] Kelsey: I cannot emphasize the [01:09:00] importance of partnerships enough, but when you’re thinking about how to make the [01:09:05] biggest impact out of these partnerships, there’s that You know, collaborative Web3 [01:09:10] element that you mentioned where people do want to just connect and introduce each other. Do that. I think it’s really [01:09:15] important.

[01:09:15] Kelsey: From a marketing perspective, if you have a partnership, I would say start [01:09:20] building out a set of marketing activities [01:09:25] when it comes to each New type of partner and by that I mean it’s [01:09:30] understanding The potential type of impact pack that each partner has and not [01:09:35] just announcing it I think I get really tired of the so and so is partnering with so and so.

[01:09:39] Kelsey: That’s it. [01:09:40] Like well, what does this mean? so I would say making sure that you’re always [01:09:45] highlighting what that means for your community and Some projects and i’ve seen this and [01:09:50] design systems in the past Also will organize their partnerships almost [01:09:55] into different types of tiers where Various marketing activities are [01:10:00] allocated to each tier to say you have a smaller more niche [01:10:05] project and you always at least write a post Published it on [01:10:10] on Twitter and you It’s about what this partnership needs for the community.

[01:10:14] Kelsey: [01:10:15] Say you have a giant partner If you’re working with like a google or amazon or someone baker [01:10:20] That’s when if their legal department permitting you also [01:10:25] have a video you have the post you write a a pr, you know An announcement, a blog [01:10:30] post, all of those different pieces. So I think wrapping your head around and getting organized [01:10:35] around these different types of also like collaborative marketing activities ahead of time is really [01:10:40] important.

[01:10:40] Kelsey: Because one challenge I see time and time again in our teams, not [01:10:45] setting realistic expectations with partners. You’ll have the non marketing person telling [01:10:50] this potential partner, yeah, we’re going to make a video meetups. [01:10:55] And then. The other person on the team or the marketing person, and these are small teams.[01:11:00] 

[01:11:00] Kelsey: These issues still happen. It’s suddenly like, well, I don’t have the [01:11:05] resources for that, or we don’t have the bandwidth for that. So kind of working across the [01:11:10] teams and making sure that you’re really buttoned up on what partnership marketing looks [01:11:15] like for your organization and making sure that you make the most out of every single interaction.[01:11:20] 

[01:11:20] Kelsey: And then secondly, Always being proactive about connecting people, even when it doesn’t [01:11:25] directly benefit your KPIs, just, just doing the right thing. And it helps [01:11:30] the overall ecosystem. 

[01:11:32] Liam: Yeah, I’ve definitely like the thing is as [01:11:35] well the the dividends for those pay off over time and you don’t know [01:11:40] when it’ll pay off.

[01:11:41] Liam: I’ve definitely seen that as the case because it’s one of [01:11:45] my favorite things about moving into journalism pretty much, full time is [01:11:50] I don’t have anything to sell anymore. So I just connect people, and [01:11:55] I’m more than happy to, and I do it just for the love of the space. And it’s great to be like, Oh, well, I need [01:12:00] to give it.

[01:12:00] Liam: No, I don’t care. Like just go and do good stuff together. I like to introduce good people to good people. [01:12:05] So if you’re good people out there and you need some contacts, hit us up on, [01:12:10] The what the three after the dark, shows where we can chat. [01:12:15] 

[01:12:15] Kelsey: And that’s awesome. I do. I think that that’s probably one of my favorite [01:12:20] parts about being in Web3 is when you know, just the right person to [01:12:25] introduce to someone else.

[01:12:27] Kelsey: And it just does something amazing for them, or they [01:12:30] just have a really great coffee. It doesn’t matter. It just kind of brings a lot more kind of energy [01:12:35] and fun into the space. And I absolutely love it. 

[01:12:38] Liam: Yeah. One of my, one of my [01:12:40] best kind of meetings like that was just, it was over just to Google me, but I was, I managed to take [01:12:45] some time to, have a call with someone just to catch up.

[01:12:49] Liam: And because of [01:12:50] being recommendation while I was out in the zoo, so I only had to get my laptop while I was at the zoo with elephants behind [01:12:55] me and have this like 30 minute call with someone. And the projects just done, [01:13:00] their first, token generation event and it’s doing really, really well. And I’ve seen them [01:13:05] grow from like literally.

[01:13:07] Liam: Just that first call to where they’re doing now. And it’s super [01:13:10] exciting. And I’ve been with them on that journey because of it, because of someone’s recommendation. It’s been super fun. [01:13:15] 

[01:13:15] Kelsey: That’s so cool. You and the elephants.[01:13:20] 

[01:13:20] Liam: That’s awesome. Okay. Last one in this section is KPIs, in emerging tech in [01:13:25] Web3. What are the KPIs that really matter? If you had to pick, like, if you only, you only have three [01:13:30] KPIs for some reason, what would they be? 

[01:13:33] Kelsey: Yeah, I really like, [01:13:35] one super solid one, which is, you know, If you’re [01:13:40] focused on Twitter X, website visits, one metric like that, [01:13:45] okay, we have X number of new followers.

[01:13:47] Kelsey: We have X number of website visitors [01:13:50] for these different regions and have something locked in like that. And then to sort of balance that with our [01:13:55] constantly fluctuating market, I like a market share metric, which is those [01:14:00] competitors that you listed out early on. understanding your share of the [01:14:05] market relative to each of them because it sort of hedges that hard number metric.

[01:14:08] Kelsey: So you’re going to [01:14:10] see lots of ups and downs potentially or some stalled out numbers when it comes to [01:14:15] Twitter followers or website visitors. But with this hedge metric, and there’s some relatively [01:14:20] inexpensive tools for this, so I do recommend looking at it, you can understand if your market share is [01:14:25] still growing.

[01:14:26] Kelsey: So maybe your followers are down. But hey, you gain 3 percent market share [01:14:30] relative to your top competitors. You’re actually doing really well. And I think the balance [01:14:35] of those two can be really, really helpful. So if I had to pick three, it [01:14:40] probably would be, I think website is still an interesting channel, one of your social channels, and then your [01:14:45] hedge metric.

[01:14:45] Kelsey: As your top three, and it’s worth it, is also when you’re working, [01:14:50] even as a small team, or even just as a founder, you need to make sure you’re having that perspective of [01:14:55] what’s happening outside of just your project. So that hedge metric really helps you understand, like, [01:15:00] Okay. Here’s what’s going on for these other types of projects.

[01:15:03] Kelsey: It’s not just me watching, [01:15:05] you know, painstaking, like number by number growing on, in your community channels [01:15:10] and website visits, there’s, there’s a bigger world out there and you need to stay connected with it to remain competitive. [01:15:15] 

[01:15:15] Liam: And surely that, I mean, I think it’s absolutely fantastic answer. And I don’t know, I’ve never [01:15:20] thought of it that way, but that ties directly into knowing where you’re at for reaching your addressable [01:15:25] market.

[01:15:25] Kelsey: Exactly. It all comes together. 

[01:15:28] Charlie: Just to [01:15:30] make this a bit more practical and like what you do, is that so, [01:15:35] website metrics, Mouseflow, Hotjar, Google Analytics, [01:15:40] social media has its own analytics on it. Market share metrics, [01:15:45] Are there any platforms that you recommend or point people in the direction of 

[01:15:48] Kelsey: yeah, we [01:15:50] have some rush.

[01:15:50] Kelsey: It’s sem rush It’s fine. You know, I feel like there’s always these [01:15:55] tools where you’re like, oh, it’s not the perfect tool, but that really has been helpful [01:16:00] um So we focus in on that and that looks at specifically [01:16:05] the website traffic because we’ve identified that as a channel that We want to [01:16:10] drive to because it’s going to be a home for a lot of resources and, and that includes, you know, it’s not gonna be as [01:16:15] valuable if it’s just like your homepage visits, we have a lot of educational [01:16:20] material house there so it really is a great measure of how we’re doing [01:16:25] driving people to our value, you know, related oriented materials, [01:16:30] versus what’s happening with some of our competitors.

[01:16:33] Kelsey: You know, we don’t want to just be in our little, [01:16:35] little bubble. So I’d say that as a tool works out well, for social, [01:16:40] I’ve liked sprout in the past, just because you can do social listening, [01:16:45] which I do think costs a little bit extra, so I don’t always recommend it right off the bat, but you can [01:16:50] understand what conversations are happening.

[01:16:52] Kelsey: You can dig into a little bit more of those [01:16:55] share voice metrics, but I like to keep it relatively simple and straightforward and not, you know, [01:17:00] Too expensive to kick things off. So I say SEMrush is a good starting point. [01:17:05] 

[01:17:06] Liam: I would like to, shill the idea of Web3 [01:17:10] social as well, because I’m a big fan of Lens at the moment, you obviously got Farcaster, you’ve got [01:17:15] Deciphy, you’ve got, I think Socialphy is a growing area, like you say, [01:17:20] maybe.

[01:17:20] Liam: If you’re going to pick a channel to start with, it’s maybe not going to be the one. It may be, depends where your [01:17:25] community are, but the great thing about Web3 social is there’s open source, like June [01:17:30] analytics has just implemented lens metrics directly into it. You [01:17:35] have, there’s a, there’s a platform called bellow insights for lens as well, because it’s all on [01:17:40] chain.

[01:17:40] Liam: All this information you can get on chain. So I think as Web3 social [01:17:45] social fiber, we want to call it grows. It’s going to be really fascinating how easy [01:17:50] you’re able to tap into these numbers and see what other wallets are interacting with [01:17:55] other wallets and all this sort of stuff. So I think that’s something I’d recommend people take a look at.

[01:18:00] Liam: [01:18:00] I’ve earned a few thousand dollars this month posting on my three social, from people [01:18:05] collecting content. Whereas I’ve paid X. Like, what was it? [01:18:10] 20 a month plus how much on ads. So there’s a big difference there between Web3 social [01:18:15] getting paid to do it. And web two social having to pay to do it.

[01:18:19] Kelsey: I think that’s so [01:18:20] cool. I would be thrilled if we just were like, Hey, let’s say goodbye to X [01:18:25] Twitter, all that. Nonsense and convert over to Web3 social. Not that there isn’t a [01:18:30] place for that. And that I know that there’s always a lot of pressure to post and engage because, [01:18:35] Oh, journalists are there.

[01:18:35] Kelsey: Journalists are there. They’re going to see and ask you questions, but we could just kind of [01:18:40] collectively transition over to more Web3 social, that would be. Absolutely. Amazing. Which one [01:18:45] is your absolute favorite? If you had to pick one 

[01:18:47] Liam: lens, because, okay, [01:18:50] because the fact that you own your own social graph and I mean, I use, [01:18:55] I use orb, I use hay X, Y, Z, I use favor and I use [01:19:00] Kyra and I use tape.

[01:19:01] Liam: I use five different apps, but they’re all lens. So it’s the same social graph. [01:19:05] So I use them for different things. So, and because you can collect posts, so yeah, I’m [01:19:10] making silly songs about Bitcoin and people are buying them, and collecting them with [01:19:15] tokens that used to be meme coins, but now have utility because we’re buying and selling them.

[01:19:19] Liam: So there’s a token [01:19:20] called, Bonsai that launched on Lens as just a meme coin. And now people are buying and selling [01:19:25] posts with it. And now all of a sudden, well, it’s a utility token and it’s not a meme [01:19:30] anymore. And for me, as someone who got into Web3 via doge coin in [01:19:35] 2014, and I, it’s really amazing because that’s the vision I had for doge.[01:19:40] 

[01:19:40] Liam: I thought it would be a fun thing that we use online on my space at the time or whatever it was [01:19:45] to buy and sell things between each other. Never happened. It’s kind of happening with this bonsai [01:19:50] token and I love it. It’s great fun. 

[01:19:52] Kelsey: That is so cool. I need to check that out [01:19:55] now. 

[01:19:56] Liam: I wrote an op ed about it on Cryptoslate, so check it out.[01:20:00] 

[01:20:00] Liam: So Kelsey, I know branding is something that you know a lot about, and in [01:20:05] Web3 we’ve talked about the way of being able to stand out. Is there anything different about branding and emerging [01:20:10] tech over sort of Web2 or sort of tradfy [01:20:15] areas? And if not, what are the most important things regardless? [01:20:20] 

[01:20:20] Kelsey: Yeah, I think that a big difference is for one reason or another, a lot of things [01:20:25] are purple.

[01:20:26] Kelsey: And that’s fine. But I, [01:20:30] I do think though, it’s just so purpley, purple, a lot of purple, but [01:20:35] you know, moving past that. And I’m not trying to say that if you [01:20:40] have purple that you’re doing something wrong. It’s just that Web3 branding, you have a little more [01:20:45] room, I think to get creative, even if you have a product that

[01:20:48] Kelsey: is focused more on the [01:20:50] institutional side. These different groups are working with something that’s a little more [01:20:55] exciting and has a unique emerging tech element. So I just [01:21:00] encourage teams and founders to really think about what their [01:21:05] visual identity, what the visual representation of what they’re doing truly is [01:21:10] and enjoy using a little bit of color.

[01:21:12] Kelsey: Enjoy. employing like a [01:21:15] dynamic experience on the website that still clearly communicates things and really [01:21:20] I’ve seen some incredible results from this where we just did I [01:21:25] think it was actually with Shardeum not too long ago from our old branding to [01:21:30] our new branding and didn’t even Announce anything because usually it’s it’s [01:21:35] not necessarily a news where we know it.

[01:21:36] Kelsey: You’ll you’ll know that better than me No one why would they care? There’s a different [01:21:40] color but just from the different design and sort of the flow of the website. We [01:21:45] saw double the number of Visitors on that day and nothing else [01:21:50] was really happening that day. So I would just encourage Founders and teams to not [01:21:55] undervalue that because it’s still you’re you’re showing up as the whole package You [01:22:00] have your voice how you’re talking about things how you’re educating who you are at events and [01:22:05] also the colors and really look and feel of your [01:22:10] project is It’s very, very important.

[01:22:12] Kelsey: So don’t get lost in the shuffle and make sure it actually [01:22:15] means something to you instead of defaulting to the usual little tech [01:22:20] figures, or some of the other things that we see across the board when it comes to brands. [01:22:25] 

[01:22:25] Liam: In a space where there’s a lot of people, a lot of [01:22:30] imitators, how difficult is it to switch branding?

[01:22:33] Liam: Cause obviously like we’re in a [01:22:35] space where every single Twitter X thread has to end with This is the end of the thread because the [01:22:40] amount of scams that are going to come after it, if you’re, if you’re moving from a recognized brand [01:22:45] to a new thing, is there anything you need to think about, about how you do that?

[01:22:49] Kelsey: Yeah, [01:22:50] I would come up with, as everyone probably knows at this point, I’m a big fan of plans and [01:22:55] outlines, with goals around that. So I’m just come up with an [01:23:00] easy plan. It doesn’t have to be too complicated around how are you going to sort of let people [01:23:05] know that you’re going to change some things.

[01:23:07] Kelsey: You can let them know that you want [01:23:10] to become something that better represents the community and who you are and what you’re doing. So [01:23:15] that way it’s just not, you know, no one’s being blindsided. And when it does come out, you can be like, Hey, [01:23:20] We created this to better serve you by XYZ. You can find [01:23:25] the educational materials a little more easily.

[01:23:27] Kelsey: It’s colorful and more vibrant, just like our project and who [01:23:30] we are. You know, you don’t have to be that kind of surface level, but it gives the [01:23:35] idea of why you’ve done something and it all should be really for the community, [01:23:40] which is what the branding is all about. And then people can go. 

[01:23:44] Liam: Sorry, they’re saying [01:23:45] that people can go back and check that you’ve posted for months about it.

[01:23:49] Kelsey: [01:23:50] Exactly that. So they have a point of reference there. And in terms of [01:23:55] people kind of being shocked by something, or a lot of times communities don’t necessarily [01:24:00] handle change well. I think a key part of this and what we did at Shardeum as well was take a [01:24:05] number of opportunities to pull a community. So I have the overall kind of creative vision and [01:24:10] direction for what made sense for the project, but there were key points where [01:24:15] we asked the community, do you like this color or that color or this one?

[01:24:19] Kelsey: And they can weigh [01:24:20] in or do you like this sort of outline with these types of shapes and logo or that one [01:24:25] and it was surprised like people just want to feel like they’re a part of it and then that way they are it’s [01:24:30] you know they truly are shaping that part of your identity with you and a [01:24:35] lot of the brands that from a starting point i’ve seen are so neutral and [01:24:40] looks so similar to all these other brands that once you innovate and create something special i’ve [01:24:45] seen it be very well which is exciting 

[01:24:48] Liam: Really great advice.

[01:24:49] Liam: Because it [01:24:50] does. And especially from like, from a journalistic point of view as well, if you don’t get that right, it can be really [01:24:55] disorientating. I remember when, Ave introduced [01:25:00] Avara as the new, head company, of the group, and I was really [01:25:05] confused, for a good hour or so when I’m looking to whether it needs to be reported on or not, because I thought they’d actually [01:25:10] change, they dropped Ave.

[01:25:11] Liam: I thought they were dropping the ghost and I’m like, no, don’t drop the ghost. I [01:25:15] love the ghost. Yeah, because it kind of came out of nowhere. Like you said, like, I think [01:25:20] if they had just like, yes, you want that shock value to try and get attention, but I think [01:25:25] there’s a lot to be said in this space of just, you know, creating that plan, teasing things out, [01:25:30] so that everyone knows where they stand with it.

[01:25:33] Liam: And I think getting people involved, I mean, [01:25:35] how many parts of the space are involved with DAOs now? So if it’s not a DAO, it doesn’t mean you still [01:25:40] can’t have a DAO like mentality. And. Trying to improve things. 

[01:25:43] Kelsey: Exactly. Like if [01:25:45] they had pulled the community, maybe they did, I didn’t see it, but hey, here’s our ghost.

[01:25:49] Kelsey: Should we keep [01:25:50] him or not? I feel like a lot of people would have engaged and that could have been a big opportunity to not only [01:25:55] tease that there might be changes coming, but show everyone how much [01:26:00] they love the little ghost and have kind Aave and everything top of mind for a little bit, [01:26:05] but those are the types of opportunities I think you can really, where you can involve the community and [01:26:10] they create a process and build even more of that kind of excitement and feeling of camaraderie of [01:26:15] building something together, which you really are.

[01:26:17] Liam: I think that’s just really smart. Like, even if you were never planning on getting rid [01:26:20] of the ghost, if you can sense check through your plan, people might think we are if we don’t do it right. [01:26:25] You play on that. 

[01:26:26] Kelsey: Yeah. And then you were like, Oh, we now have a strong data point. So if [01:26:30] one day a founder wakes up and is like, I hate the ghost today.

[01:26:33] Kelsey: You’re like, no, we actually all love it. [01:26:35] We actually have data behind that and the ghost lives or dies or [01:26:40] whatever. 

[01:26:40] Liam: Yeah. Okay. Brilliant. Well, let’s move on to our final [01:26:45] section then. Charlie, do you want to take away our desert island essentials? 

[01:26:48] Charlie: Of course, of course. [01:26:50] Okay. So Kelsey with this is this is a component where we’re looking for the most [01:26:55] practical steps we can give our viewers.

[01:26:57] Charlie: If you imagine back at the start of your career, no [01:27:00] bags, no reputation, no connections in the space, no black book full of numbers that could help [01:27:05] get you out of a tight spot in your entrepreneurial journey. What are the five things you would bring [01:27:10] to that desert island in terms of the essentials to help accelerate yourself on that [01:27:15] journey?

[01:27:16] Kelsey: Absolutely. Outside of like a very strong SPF, [01:27:20] I don’t know if this one counts, but you know, your phone [01:27:25] I, because telegram, so I don’t know if telegram is allowed as a desert island [01:27:30] one. So say, you know, no one. Yeah. But you have telegram, you can go [01:27:35] on and join all of these little communities and groups and start talking.

[01:27:39] Kelsey: [01:27:40] Start sharing your thoughts, maybe make some memes, which you can also do on your phone if you’re on [01:27:45] a desert island. But really start getting out there and building those connections because [01:27:50] I have found that a lot of, some communities more so than others, so, it’s a little bit [01:27:55] of trial and error, but folks like to engage.

[01:27:57] Kelsey: And if you’re trying to, to get [01:28:00] started in, in Web3 and start building those connections, offer your thoughts. If someone [01:28:05] shares something in the Telegram group that you’re in that you think is interesting, Respond and comment on it, you know, [01:28:10] drop some fun like emojis on the different comments. There’s just start really [01:28:15] consistently Engaging and that’s a great way to start and I think it’s important to just build things up a little bit when you don’t have that [01:28:20] level of connectivity, when you don’t have those connections that you [01:28:25] already, you know, have later in your career.

[01:28:27] Kelsey: So that’s a big one, I think. [01:28:30] Another one is if you can get your hands on a book that [01:28:35] is focused more on broader, What was [01:28:40] psychology behind marketing and business and you know, it’s not going to be a perfect [01:28:45] application to all things Web3, but I think it’s important for us to consistently [01:28:50] get out of our own bubbles.

[01:28:51] Kelsey: And there have been things, there are things that have already been done [01:28:55] and thought through and research that still work when it comes to Web3. And, [01:29:00] and one of the books I do like is focused on behavioral science in [01:29:05] marketing. And it’s just really digs into, so really that book, I think it’s called, [01:29:10] Behavioral Science and Marketing, or any of those more psychology based [01:29:15] books will get you a lot further than some of these hyper tailored, you [01:29:20] know, it’s only good for ten minutes because we’re trying to capitalize on this type of NFT, you know, You [01:29:25] know, Explosion or something like that because there are certain factors that really drive [01:29:30] people and whether it’s like we’ve talked about understanding that people want to [01:29:35] be part of a community and really what drives that or understanding some of the [01:29:40] Interesting biases that people have around, you know abundance versus scarcity.

[01:29:44] Kelsey: I [01:29:45] think it helps you just Understand your fellow humans a little bit better and really understand [01:29:50] and reorient yourself consistently towards people time and time again and [01:29:55] those have been really key ones. I think in terms of online courses, I [01:30:00] feel like I am on a constant hunt for [01:30:05] interesting courses, and I don’t currently have a absolute [01:30:10] favorite, so I’m actually interested to hear if either one of you guys have one.

[01:30:14] Kelsey: I think I’ve [01:30:15] Touched on a number of them. I think that there’s some really interesting courses for free [01:30:20] offered by large major universities. There’s ones that are affordable from Stanford that [01:30:25] focus on blockchain. But when I think about starting a project as a [01:30:30] founder, those can be great background and great way to connect with people, but just don’t [01:30:35] currently have a favorite.

[01:30:36] Kelsey: Have you guys taken any that you thought were really remarkable? 

[01:30:39] Charlie: Me [01:30:40] personally? Generally understanding venture finance [01:30:45] is probably one of the, like any course from any reputable school, do your [01:30:50] two or three months in that, really going to help you. 

[01:30:52] Liam: Yeah, absolutely. I don’t do courses. I know everything.

[01:30:54] Kelsey: [01:30:55] Then you need to make some courses.[01:31:00] 

[01:31:00] Liam: I’d say from that perspective, I would say, Reddit [01:31:05] reading. It’s not really a cause, but it is, is go [01:31:10] back to somewhere like, I’m going to be biased, but [01:31:15] go onto crypto slate because I genuinely think the way we report, so if we only report things that are really [01:31:20] important and maybe decrypt, I’d maybe [01:31:25] recommend, But there’s so much fluff that other people report on.

[01:31:29] Liam: [01:31:30] Like we don’t, I look through the newsfeeds every day, and there’s so many stories that [01:31:35] other our competitors run that we just won’t run because it’s just fluff. But if you go back through the [01:31:40] last last cycle and read one and just read the newsfeed, the [01:31:45] headlines of all the stories for the last from 2000, from 2020 to now.[01:31:50] 

[01:31:50] Liam: That would give you so much insight into the space. 

[01:31:53] Kelsey: Yeah, I think that [01:31:55] that’s awesome. I think I’d grab both of those if you have a lot of time on a desert island, [01:32:00] be able to read through everything, be able to understand venture finance is awesome. really [01:32:05] essential. And then I would also look at something if you can grab, or just [01:32:10] something that inspires you that isn’t directly necessarily [01:32:15] Web3.

[01:32:15] Kelsey: So if you have a favorite, you know, whether it’s a fantasy [01:32:20] novel, historical fiction, whether it’s an art book, something like that, because I find that [01:32:25] sometimes when you’re focused Laser focused on a challenge or a problem or building a company [01:32:30] you sometimes lose touch with these other Elements outside of that that would actually lead [01:32:35] to something better Like I know I come up with my best strategies and campaigns [01:32:40] sometimes when I’m out engaging with something else or even though you can’t bring an art museum to a desert [01:32:45] island like it Art book or something that just kind of taps into another part of you that [01:32:50] you’re excited that gives you that energy to keep going I think sometimes we forget about [01:32:55] that honestly and kind of in line with that is also something [01:33:00] Healthy, I know that’s not directly a a and I think a lot of times we’re [01:33:05] building, building, building and focus, focus, focus.

[01:33:07] Kelsey: We forget to look after ourselves and you’re not going [01:33:10] to build something as great as it could be. You’re not going to lead as well as you could if [01:33:15] you’re running on empty. And there’s a degree of, you know, getting in everything, [01:33:20] that you possibly can, but. I would really emphasize like a little bit of [01:33:25] balance.

[01:33:25] Kelsey: I mean, it’s like, this is so tired, but the whole self, you know, little bit of self care, whether [01:33:30] it’s like healthy eating, don’t just try to exist on what was trendy for a while. Like [01:33:35] Soylent, the, those drinks don’t just like eat protein bars. Don’t forget to like, you [01:33:40] know, shower, do whatever to kind of take care of yourself.

[01:33:43] Kelsey: Because I think it’s easy to get swept [01:33:45] up in the excitement, like we were talking about earlier, but bringing some sort of essential with you on this [01:33:50] journey that makes you feel like A person who’s taking care of themselves will actually go a long [01:33:55] way and beautifully compliment all of the kind of harder strategic elements that we talked about and [01:34:00] that behavioral science, you know, research and reading those headlines and [01:34:05] understanding venture finance, make sure you’re looking after yourself too, basically.

[01:34:09] Liam: One [01:34:10] of my favorite business books is called rest by, [01:34:15] Alex Sujong Park. And it’s about not working. Oh, I love that. [01:34:20] Yeah, and it’s one of, it’s one of the most impactful books I’ve read. And he [01:34:25] brings on all of those ideas. So, it’s well worth a read as well. [01:34:30] Yeah, touch cross, as they say. Yeah, 

[01:34:32] Kelsey: I like that a lot.

[01:34:33] Kelsey: So I think those are [01:34:35] my essentials. Are there any essentials that I missed that you guys think you would take with you to the desert island? [01:34:40] 

[01:34:40] Liam: Oh, I don’t usually get it turned around on us. 

[01:34:44] Kelsey: Well, [01:34:45] I need to know if I should be packing something else too. So 

[01:34:48] Liam: I think, like you said, I think your [01:34:50] phone, I think like, and I think that’s so much more prescient than it kind of sounds as well, [01:34:55] because 25 years ago, you wouldn’t have thought that that would be like, just a phone.

[01:34:59] Liam: Oh, so you can [01:35:00] call people like, These mini computers we have are so powerful, like it [01:35:05] shows how, how much the world has changed. I thought it was a brilliant thing. I saw on [01:35:10] Reddit that they were talking about like, millennials think that, big purchases [01:35:15] require big screens. So if you’re going to buy like flights, it has to be on a desktop because it’s [01:35:20] on a mobile phone.

[01:35:21] Liam: Well, Generations are doing that now and it’s becoming more and more, I [01:35:25] think, like it’s not going to be the case for long. So, you know, realizing you can do [01:35:30] anything from your phone and not limiting yourself by thinking, Oh, I need a computer for that. 

[01:35:34] Kelsey: [01:35:35] Yeah. I really like that. 

[01:35:36] Charlie: I think for me, it would be the phones.

[01:35:38] Charlie: The phone’s a good one, but [01:35:40] for me, it’s just, it’s, it’s. This isn’t something you can bring with [01:35:45] you, but it’s just reduce your cost as much as possible. [01:35:50] So, like just, just ensure that you’re, you’re living as sustainable a life as [01:35:55] possible. So when I was at the beginning of, of my entrepreneurial journey, I was living in [01:36:00] a city in London, moved back home and, That’s just part of [01:36:05] my story, but I’m not ashamed of it.

[01:36:06] Charlie: It’s just what happened when I could just about afford anything. [01:36:10] I then moved to much cheaper than central [01:36:15] London, right? It just is, I think keeping an eye on [01:36:20] lifestyle is important. To your point, Kelsey, around. [01:36:25] You still need to have a life and, and you [01:36:30] can get, you can get pretty far in Estonia and Lisbon and countries like this on [01:36:35] what you would spend on a night out, like one dinner in London.

[01:36:39] Charlie: I think [01:36:40] people need to be conscious of that. You know, a lot of the, a lot of the bigger [01:36:45] conferences are in these like city centers and, actually [01:36:50] a lot of the building doesn’t. I don’t need to happen there. [01:36:55] 

[01:36:55] Liam: I think that’s something I think it’s amazing to hear Charlie saying that because, that’s [01:37:00] something that Charlie would only want to work when we first met.

[01:37:02] Liam: The idea of having a life outside of work wasn’t something that [01:37:05] you thought was conducive to good work. Now you’re [01:37:10] adding, and I was the same. I had my creative director in my company that I [01:37:15] founded was the same. He believed in work life balance. I just wanted to work all the time. He Took [01:37:20] me six years to realize that he was right all along.

[01:37:23] Liam: I met Charlie and [01:37:25] the roles were reversed. And now you’ve seen the light and know that rest is [01:37:30] conducive to good work. 

[01:37:31] Kelsey: Yeah, I, that’s great. I’m, I’m glad you’ve had a [01:37:35] transformation, Charlie. I had one too many. You know nights where I’m just like, Oh, let me finish one more thing. [01:37:40] Let me finish one more thing.

[01:37:41] Kelsey: That’s three or 4 a. m. And you have to wake up in two hours. And [01:37:45] after a while, I’m just like, you know what, I’m not thinking of any interesting creative concepts [01:37:50] on one hour of sleep, you know? So it’s a really great, I think. Push [01:37:55] forward and we cannot, you know, continue to glorify the [01:38:00] working 24 seven because the results just aren’t as good. 

[01:38:04] Charlie: The hustle [01:38:05] culture.

[01:38:05] Kelsey: Yeah. 

[01:38:05] Liam: I mean, yes, there’s the whole mental like we can argue for the mental health aspects and where [01:38:10] I balance. But if you want to just look at it from the raw, like facts, you will be more productive. And you’ll [01:38:15] be better at your job if you have some space from it. 

[01:38:18] Charlie: Exactly. That’s not to say [01:38:20] toss about, like, you do have to GST.

[01:38:21] Charlie: Like, you have to get stuff done. [01:38:25] 

[01:38:26] Kelsey: Old Charlie’s coming back a little bit. [01:38:30] Yeah, get your stuff done, but also sleep. 

[01:38:33] Charlie: There is, there is an element sometimes [01:38:35] of JFDI. 

[01:38:36] Liam: So on that note, Kelsey, before [01:38:40] we finish off, this is your time to talk about anything you’d like to plug. Where can people find [01:38:45] you? Where can they learn more about Shardeum?

[01:38:47] Liam: The floor is yours. 

[01:38:48] Kelsey: Thank you so much. [01:38:50] So I would say Shardi Shardeum. org, check that out. You can see some of the [01:38:55] brand stuff that we’ve been working on, and how we design that. I think to find [01:39:00] me, LinkedIn is actually pretty good. Kelsey Maguire, please send [01:39:05] a note. I’m happy to answer people and on telegram at hey Maguire, [01:39:10] but please include that you heard about me from this particular [01:39:15] conversation because there’s also a lot of strange, inbound messages on telegram [01:39:20] as well as I’m, I’m not on Twitter X.

[01:39:23] Kelsey: It’s a whole lot, but I [01:39:25] occasionally lurk, so that’s another place, but you won’t see a whole lot of what I have going on there, [01:39:30] but mostly Shardeum. org and LinkedIn and hope to connect with you [01:39:35] guys. We’re also at a lot of different events, so if you ever see me live, please come up and have a chat. I like talking to you [01:39:40] all.

[01:39:40] Liam: Kelsey, it’s been an absolute pleasure talking to you. I’ve learned a lot from this. Remember [01:39:45] guys, you guys and gals, you can go onto the website and there will be a, [01:39:50] got a tool that allows you to look at the transcripts and interact with this, basically talk as if you were [01:39:55] talking with us, with a special tool on the site there.

[01:39:58] Liam: If you go and have a look, don’t want to [01:40:00] give it away in case we haven’t announced it yet. But yeah, go into the website, check it out. [01:40:05] Um. Listen back, take notes. I’ve, I’ve been, before [01:40:10] I got out of marketing, I’ve been in marketing for, I was in like for 15, 16 years and I’ve [01:40:15] learned a lot from this podcast episode, Kelsey.

[01:40:17] Liam: So thank you very much. Really open my eyes to some [01:40:20] ideas, which I’ll be sharing with people, for free because I don’t have to pitch anything anymore. I [01:40:25] sell anything. So again, Charlie, [01:40:30] you’ve been all right. So next time guys. See you in the next one. 

[01:40:34] Kelsey: Thanks [01:40:35] everyone. 

[01:40:35] Liam: Thanks. I love you really [01:40:40] [01:40:45] Charlie.