[00:00:00] Charlie: Welcome back to episode 3 of the What [00:00:05] The 3 podcast. This is the podcast where myself, Liam and Thomas bring on [00:00:10] guests who have infinitely more experience than us to tell us about bringing a business from [00:00:15] zero to one. Today we have Ian Foley, who has an [00:00:20] absolutely amazing career history, having started his career in consulting and finance, [00:00:25] working in the San Francisco Consulting Group, Telco Italia Ventures, and MCC [00:00:30] Global, later working at Stanford Research Institute, where he helped build [00:00:35] Siri, what is in Apple’s now voice technology solution.
[00:00:39] Charlie: [00:00:40] After six years, he came to the conclusion that after focusing on helping others, he wanted to now focus on building companies [00:00:45] himself. He started his entrepreneurial journey as VP of business Development at [00:00:50] Rhythm, a mobile video brand advertising company that was later acquired by Blink [00:00:55] X. He then went on to become VP of sales at you, me, a provider of digital [00:01:00] video brand advertising, which he took from 30 million to 170 million [00:01:05] in revenue and iPod on the New York Stock Exchange in 2013.
[00:01:09] Charlie: Then going [00:01:10] on to focus, to founding Acute IQ and running that as the CEO. [00:01:15] A customer acquisition platform that use machine learning to predict purchase [00:01:20] intent. They received an award from SAP for the most innovative [00:01:25] enterprise software. AcuteIQ was also then acquired by Trajectory Solutions [00:01:30] in December 2017.
[00:01:32] Charlie: After his startup [00:01:35] experiences, Ian created playbooks to help other entrepreneurs succeed and move forward towards private [00:01:40] equity. As the venture partner of Xenon Ventures, where he worked with a [00:01:45] portfolio of 30 companies on improving their valuation by helping them raise capital, [00:01:50] undertake M& A and building new business lines.
[00:01:53] Charlie: Next, Ian went on [00:01:55] to become the chief business officer at Arweave, where he helped 250 companies get from [00:02:00] web three to enterprise web two, and then to And improve their operations in [00:02:05] then joined by Nance as chief business officer at BNB CZ was interested in [00:02:10] in applying the same playbooks of helping large ecosystems to support BNB [00:02:15] ecosystem of 4, 000 apps.
[00:02:17] Charlie: Currently, as if that wasn’t enough, Ian is now the [00:02:20] general partner of infrastructure ventures, where he was working on finding entrepreneurs in the Southern [00:02:25] hemisphere and giving them a better opportunity to build and raise capital than they would have if they had [00:02:30] done it as an entity in their own home country.
[00:02:32] Charlie: Ian is looking for the next generation of entrepreneurs [00:02:35] in still untapped markets, believing that if we can crack the problem of providing the right [00:02:40] opportunity to the best founders, they will have positive impact on hundreds of thousands of [00:02:45] lives. Ian, thank you for being here with us today to
[00:02:48] Ian: talk
[00:02:49] Charlie: about [00:02:50] how we look at the market landscape and finding opportunities.
[00:02:53] Ian: Well, excited to be here with you [00:02:55] guys.
[00:02:55] Charlie: I believe one of the first stories we’ll talk about is How you were talking to the [00:03:00] producers of Family Guy. You tell us a little bit more about that.
[00:03:03] Ian: Yeah. So, [00:03:05] this is when I was at, at, at Rhythm. Rhythm was the [00:03:10] first mobile video ad network. So I suppose you could blame me [00:03:15] for all those annoying ads you now see on mobile phone.
[00:03:19] Ian: So [00:03:20] beforehand it was thought it was too expensive to actually put, [00:03:25] video on mobile phones, give away for free. I, the ad model, [00:03:30] and so there were companies out there who were doing it, you had to go and pay, you had to go and pay to go [00:03:35] and get, access to video to watch on, on, on your phone. This is an, [00:03:40] before the iPhone back in 2004, 2005.
[00:03:43] Ian: So [00:03:45] we were, we were, we were first to market. And when the, when the, when the iPhone [00:03:50] came out, we were, we did create our own at that point, our own video ad network [00:03:55] with content. And we also, we were creating apps, we actually created the first. [00:04:00] Video app on the, on, on the app store when it launched and we got to [00:04:05] number one, but there weren’t that many app stores at the time.
[00:04:09] Ian: It’s easy to [00:04:10] get to number one. So Vsnacker was called, launch. We got some [00:04:15] great content. And I am responsible to keep on finding new content. So that means going [00:04:20] after publishers, content providers to get content to be able to watch, to be able to watch [00:04:25] the other content and then, then see the ads.
[00:04:28] Ian: So it’s a kind of chicken and egg. You need the [00:04:30] content then to get the ads. And we were, we were like, we, at that point we were building the whole [00:04:35] thing. We were like building the apps, we were creating the, the [00:04:40] actual, sourcing the content and sourcing advertising, the whole, whole thing. A [00:04:45] lot of work, but we needed to do that.
[00:04:46] Ian: It was a starting point of a new industry. So you needed the happy [00:04:50] lifting. And I remember there’s a way family guy, we were [00:04:55] trying to sustain our lead in, in the app store, and finding BoostyHeart, [00:05:00] and thought, well, let’s go and find new content. So you went around, I went [00:05:05] to, down to Hollywood, met the guys at, in, in the Fox, Fox, Fox [00:05:10] studio.
[00:05:10] Ian: Who, who at the time had a number of, of assets, [00:05:15] including FamilyGuy. And I said, listen, what we should do is we should, you know, put [00:05:20] FamilyGuy on Vsnacks. And there was some sort of silence in the room [00:05:25] for like no way, but they said, well, what we are thinking of doing is creating our own [00:05:30] app around FamilyGuy.
[00:05:31] Ian: We don’t really want to license our content. And that [00:05:35] was the aha moment. And why it’s co defining, it’s listening [00:05:40] intently to customers, because this is what was key for us as we, in that [00:05:45] meeting, we listened to what the Fox team said and actually changed the whole business strategy of the company. So [00:05:50] rather than go out and create our own branded experience, vStacks, We then [00:05:55] started powering up all the other tier one, tier two content [00:06:00] providers, their apps.
[00:06:01] Ian: It sounds obvious now, but at the time we, we, we felt there [00:06:05] wasn’t, enough basically, movement in the industry to do that. But the family [00:06:10] guy, instance that, that really wrecked me to realize there was opportunity to do this. There was an [00:06:15] opportunity to go and, and, and power up third party apps. And it is, it’s really [00:06:20] example of why, why it’s important is it’s realizing that listening to your customer, [00:06:25] okay, having them drive your strategy is far more important than you thinking what is right.
[00:06:29] Ian: [00:06:30] And so that amongst the other instances is, is a key idea because it’s, it is the [00:06:35] heart of what I believe in, which is that, listening to the voice, the customer, [00:06:40] even very early on, I’m talking about from zero to one, this podcast [00:06:45] about so very early on, if you can. Have your strong idea, have a [00:06:50] hypothesis around what you want to build, but test it by talking to customers.
[00:06:54] Ian: [00:06:55] Test it, like we did, but we did it a bit later, too late, in terms of talking [00:07:00] to, to a family guy, ideally we would have talked to them earlier and got their opinion earlier, but, but we didn’t. So [00:07:05] advice to those who are building companies is test it. listen to the customers [00:07:10] early and often because they can often be a great guide to help you build your business.
[00:07:14] Charlie: [00:07:15] Amazing. I mean, in that sense, how were you listening to customers [00:07:20] at that, that part of your journey?
[00:07:22] Ian: Well, up until then, we thought we had to go [00:07:25] and build the whole, the whole sort of, stack ourselves. We had to go and [00:07:30] find the content, find the advertising. Build, build the actual app, go into the [00:07:35] marketing, customer acquisition.
[00:07:36] Ian: So we felt that we had to do the whole thing, but by listening [00:07:40] to customers, we realized we should just focus, focus on what we were really good at, which was [00:07:45] finding the advertising. They had the content. And their brand could find the [00:07:50] audience. So focus on what they were good at.
[00:07:53] Charlie: Oh, awesome. So I’ve [00:07:55] got a story here about another tree falling in the forest.
[00:07:58] Ian: Oh, yes. [00:08:00] One thing I do is, as, as a, as a, I suppose a side [00:08:05] hustle, is I’m a, a cartoonist for, for Fortune Magazine. [00:08:10] And I, and I got into that, by, by [00:08:15] RI originally I was a, a journalist at university, in England because. In [00:08:20] England, actually, as a journalist, it’s great because you get invited to all these really nice events that [00:08:25] go on, like the, went to Henley, I went to Wimbledon, because I was a journalist, I [00:08:30] got invited out.
[00:08:30] Ian: So it was a great, great, great way to begin, but the tree falling in the forest is, [00:08:35] is about, 15 years in, as I was, you know, Still writing, [00:08:40] on the side, I, I sort of moved from writing university was more, as a way [00:08:45] just to understand industry. By the time I was in the industry, I was writing really just to keep up and, [00:08:50] and, and build a brand, I suppose.
[00:08:52] Ian: But I began to realize increasingly that, you know, I was [00:08:55] yet another tree falling in the forest, yet another person in technology, in Silicon Valley, writing [00:09:00] about tech, you know, yawns. I just feel what, and I [00:09:05] really felt that, I am, we did analysis, you know, those, those tools [00:09:10] you can look at and they can tell you, those sort of, the heat map, [00:09:15] it’s the heat map of, of where people look on the page.
[00:09:18] Ian: And I’d find that people would like read the [00:09:20] first sentence, scroll down from my article, look at the, [00:09:25] maybe an image or something, and then read the last sentence. I thought all this bloody [00:09:30] work, but basically, they were not appreciating it. So. I [00:09:35] thought, why don’t I try a different medium? Let’s, adapt to [00:09:40] the zeitgeist of today, which is really about, thinking about sharing, [00:09:45] and engaging with others.
[00:09:47] Ian: So I thought that let’s move into the world of [00:09:50] cartoons. And because of my background in advertising, I thought, well, let’s create A [00:09:55] single panel cartoon, probably a big mistake because it’s a lot harder to do a cartoon on a [00:10:00] single panel than a multiple panel. But I was, I came from that advertising space like, [00:10:05] Oh, I’ll create a 300 by 250 ad unit.
[00:10:07] Ian: That would be my, my, my cartoon. I [00:10:10] could send it around. I can put, I can send it to all over the internet, although people may not [00:10:15] want to see it. I could, I could do so. So I ended up building this, single. [00:10:20] Seagull panel, cartoon concept. And basically it was like, the a thousand [00:10:25] words I’ve put together would now, you know, as they say, a picture’s worth a thousand words.
[00:10:28] Ian: So the, the, [00:10:30] the piece there is, is realizing sort of being a tree falling in the forest. It was a realization that, [00:10:35] you know, you need to constantly find a way to keep innovating, be [00:10:40] competitive, differentiate yourself. And, and, and that was, a hard [00:10:45] change, but I realized it was a far more effective one.
[00:10:47] Ian: I got. So because of that, I got [00:10:50] into fortune and other, other occasions, my cartoons, which I was [00:10:55] not getting into fortune watching my articles. So it was, it is, [00:11:00] is, is, is, is the upside of that.
[00:11:03] Charlie: Yeah. I had a similar [00:11:05] conversation with a mentor, which was, you’ve got to make sure you’re in the right boat, rowing the right direction.
[00:11:09] Ian: Yeah. [00:11:10]
[00:11:10] Charlie: And it’s, you know, you, you could be trying your hardest to work in the financial [00:11:15] sector, but. Compared to the amount of money you could make or the progress you can make in, [00:11:20] in say 2017, 2021 in the blockchain space, it doesn’t matter [00:11:25] how many years you work there. the water’s flowing the other way.
[00:11:28] Ian: That’s true. Well, my [00:11:30] bed was sinking to use your analogy. I was lost. [00:11:35] I was lost in the Pacific.
[00:11:36] Charlie: Lost Antsat [00:11:40] seae sea of content.
[00:11:42] Charlie: Okay. So third piece, really looking at [00:11:45] discovering lost Einstein’s and something that we’ve talked about. Recently. But [00:11:50] could you take our audience through a little bit about?
[00:11:51] Charlie: Yeah.
[00:11:51] Ian: So, so I suppose that [00:11:55] having, done a few startups myself, I’ve realized how hard it is to, [00:12:00] the people who’ve got, to actually access,h, capital.
[00:12:04] Ian: [00:12:05] So if, if you’ve got an idea and you’re fortunate enough, I suppose, to be born in San [00:12:10] Francisco or maybe London or Beijing, I think somewhere at 62 percent of all capital [00:12:15] is employed. Well, You’ve got a pretty good chance, that you actually have a chance to [00:12:20] get capital to build your company if you want to go down that path of, of building a venture backed startup.
[00:12:24] Ian: [00:12:25] So opportunity is great if you’re in those locations. [00:12:30] Now if you go beyond that, let’s say, across America, it’s harder for [00:12:35] actually MIT. I did this research report, and I remember reading [00:12:40] it, it’s actually, I feel sometimes I read this report, you know how some people talk about, they read, you [00:12:45] know, Satoshi’s like white paper, you know, that discovery [00:12:50] moment.
[00:12:50] Ian: Well I had my discovery moment when I was reading this MIT report [00:12:55] and it was called Lost Einstein. He was talking about like how even in rural and, and mid [00:13:00] size American cities, there’s a, there’s millions, literally millions of Americans who have [00:13:05] not been able to live on their true potential. And it got me thinking, I was like, well, maybe it’s not [00:13:10] just the Northern Hemisphere.
[00:13:11] Ian: Maybe a big opportunity is the summer Southern Hemisphere, where she’s even [00:13:15] further removed. I mean, imagine you’re like growing up in Sao Paolo, or [00:13:20] you’re in, you know, Nigeria, Indonesia, you know, how hard is it for those [00:13:25] people to be able to actually get capital? And it was like, I suppose it was reading that report [00:13:30] was a really important one to bring to the forefront of what I want to do next.
[00:13:34] Ian: [00:13:35] And that was really the basis of what I’m doing now, which is infrastructure ventures.
[00:13:38] Charlie: So where you come from [00:13:40] really, really matters as to whether or not you can get in the room. Yeah. And that’s, that’s just a reality. [00:13:45] It’s, it’s not a good or a bad thing. It just is regardless of how you feel about it. [00:13:50] So yeah, it is a real problem.
[00:13:51] Charlie: Last, last time I was in Jakarta, [00:13:55] I was meeting the chamber of commerce for various different things [00:14:00] and they, they, one of the problems they were trying to solve was how do we [00:14:05] get money into the country to support these young burgeoning entrepreneurs? [00:14:10] And, and we were looking at everything from the association of [00:14:15] blockchain to, Essentially money lending, [00:14:20] they call it a different, it’s a different translation words there, but, but basically short term loans [00:14:25] and that kind of stuff and how, how they could start getting innovation into the technology they were [00:14:30] building rather than.
[00:14:31] Charlie: Buying it in from outside. It was, it was actually quite an [00:14:35] interesting couple of weeks. There’s no way they can get funding if, [00:14:40] unless you, you have someone who is off status sponsor you in, which is basically [00:14:45] like getting, getting a GP of a VC to know you, which [00:14:50] is not easy.
[00:14:51] Thomas: Yeah. It’s fascinating because we, we always see [00:14:55] like when we’re talking about Lost Einstein’s and Southern Hemisphere, like we see it on the other way around because.
[00:14:59] Thomas: When [00:15:00] building tech, we have a lot of entrepreneurs here in the North that are like, Oh, [00:15:05] we want to deploy our tech in the South. And then find it hard to find [00:15:10] actually funding for that, even in the North. But what I always find so interesting is that, [00:15:15] it’s people that are from Europe, right, that want to deploy and maybe they’ve lived 10, 20 years in [00:15:20] Africa or in this case, Africa.
[00:15:22] Thomas: I always find it interesting that we see [00:15:25] less, African entrepreneurs, and it’s solely for [00:15:30] this reason. It’s like, there’s no capital there. If you don’t have capital, why would you build, right? Or, and if you build, you, [00:15:35] you won’t build with, PhDs, from Europe, you probably build with [00:15:40] your local team.
[00:15:41] Thomas: Right. I think this. [00:15:45] Giving, giving, the Southern Hemisphere more access to capital, I think is going to [00:15:50] be a massive change in narrative and I think a perspective over the next 10 [00:15:55] years in tech and everything that drives it, right?
[00:15:58] Ian: Exactly. And I mean, it’s, [00:16:00] what’s interesting is you look at just population growth.
[00:16:03] Ian: I mean, in, by [00:16:05] 2050, I suppose I’m saying this to the question, obviously we have, you know, India, [00:16:10] China, the U S. What countries do you think are the next three or four [00:16:15] behind them in population size?
[00:16:17] Charlie: Indonesia for, for certain, is one of them.
[00:16:19] Ian: Yeah, this is [00:16:20] one. Nigeria, I believe. Nigeria’s other, yep.
[00:16:23] Charlie: Brazil? Brazil. [00:16:25]
[00:16:25] Ian: Yep.
[00:16:25] Charlie: No, Brazil.
[00:16:26] Ian: And the final one is Pakistan. So, I mean, these are, this is [00:16:30] like, no, this is incredible. Just the sheer, I mean, and, and [00:16:35] you’ve got to believe that there are incredible companies are yet to be [00:16:40] created. And this is why I think the interesting thing about blockchain fits in is that there is some [00:16:45] capabilities that blockchain provides, which I suppose democratizes tech [00:16:50] to the extent that people in.
[00:16:52] Ian: These, these, parts of our can actually build a lot [00:16:55] cheaper. I mean, this is the upside of, of, of, these are frameworks that [00:17:00] get created, whether it’s a wallet or it’s some basic building tools, which just [00:17:05] give these tools to the hands of people. And you can do so much more nowadays. Where these tools, you [00:17:10] don’t need as many people and you can actually more quicker get product to market [00:17:15] and provide the same level of quality as you’d expect in building anywhere.
[00:17:19] Ian: This is what [00:17:20] is incredible. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a huge force of democratizing, democratizing [00:17:25] tech. That’s what I see.
[00:17:27] Thomas: Do you think, and I would love to talk [00:17:30] about, because I think these are very important points and I think it’s a nice segue into like the [00:17:35] advices for what you would give to these entrepreneurs, is that you but I wanted to add one question here, [00:17:40] which is, do you also believe that tech has more impact, [00:17:45] in these countries due to the fact that the problems that tech solves, if say [00:17:50] blockchain anything else, is more impactful due to the fact that there’s a different [00:17:55] culture, different infrastructure for tech?
[00:17:58] Ian: Yeah, I think so. I mean, it plays out already. [00:18:00] This, this, this is played out, about, I was up five, 10, 15 years ago where the, [00:18:05] the rollout of, of mobile phones is, is, is there is. Far more [00:18:10] valued for a farmer in, in Kenya to have access to a phone [00:18:15] so they can like book price of, obvious projects, the marketplace, as [00:18:20] opposed to like arriving in the marketplace and having to take the price it was given at that [00:18:25] time.
[00:18:25] Ian: So even this has been long proven, as [00:18:30] tech can help leapfrog, and in these markets [00:18:35] because it’s starting from a, a, a different perspective. A different stack, you know, in fact, I can [00:18:40] start from a completely fresh. So I think there’s that, that piece, which is, which has long [00:18:45] been, applied, mobile phones, the most recent one.
[00:18:49] Ian: But, the [00:18:50] other piece I think is, is, is, is just the, Access to finance, [00:18:55] that’s the one that I think is, is, is some of this whole concept about capital, [00:19:00] but, it’s really hard for people, to get access to a bank [00:19:05] account, but with a wallet, you know, a blockchain wallet, you could very [00:19:10] easily,h, move money around and transfer around.
[00:19:13] Ian: And let’s say there’s going to have to [00:19:15] be, regulation and there’s simpler ways to access the wallet, but the [00:19:20] concepts of the fundable nature Of, of, of money, and [00:19:25] how it applies to, in, with using blockchain for that is, is really exciting. And I [00:19:30] think there’s huge opportunities, this across the whole [00:19:35] global South.
[00:19:35] Ian: I’m seeing, I know the folks here with Stellar who have a number [00:19:40] of, of their companies in their ecosystem are building great, technologies in the Central and [00:19:45] South America around remittances, and things like that. And then likewise in [00:19:50] Africa and. know, for example, when I was, [00:19:55] some of the companies that we were supporting a BNB in, in the finances to [00:20:00] many of them were gaming companies based in, in Asia, they were creating these casual games, which [00:20:05] are far more.
[00:20:05] Ian: Higher takeout rate than they had in the past. [00:20:10] And it was really because that they were dealing with a [00:20:15] local situation. So you had a chance to develop really innovative, casual games. [00:20:20] And we see instead up here, we’re waiting for the next Marvel masterpiece. So [00:20:25] it takes, it takes, basically, Years, if not months, [00:20:30] to basically, to, to build out the next version.
[00:20:34] Ian: It’s a, it’s a different [00:20:35] pace. So I think there’s both a techn technological leap, but also there’s a lot of great [00:20:40] services that can come out, whether it’s, you know, it’s finance or gaming or many other areas that, that, [00:20:45] that global serving or, or, or actually tinted to lead. Lead, and be the, a source of [00:20:50] innovation
[00:20:52] Thomas: Gaming is, has always been huge in, in [00:20:55] apac.
[00:20:55] Thomas: Definitely casual gaming and, and mobile gaming. Like once mobile gaming got big, it [00:21:00] got big really quick, with microtransactions in, in apac [00:21:05] as to, you would look at, at, you know, the, the north and the west. [00:21:10] Mobile gaming is big. Yes. But like, when it comes to microt transactional casual gaming, it, it’s [00:21:15] been looked.
[00:21:15] Thomas: Completely different, from a different level at it. But the reason why it’s so big [00:21:20] is not because like, the U. S. picked up casual gaming. That was actually [00:21:25] Asia.
[00:21:27] Ian: Absolutely.
[00:21:28] Charlie: Okay. So, I [00:21:30] think it’s probably time to segue quite. Nicely into what [00:21:35] advice, so really looking at, startups who are looking at the [00:21:40] market landscape and looking to find that opportunity.
[00:21:43] Charlie: What are the, the top sort of [00:21:45] 10 tips or, or pieces of advice that you would give startup [00:21:50] founders who are starting their journey?
[00:21:54] Ian: Yeah, I [00:21:55] would say the, the onem, which is, is. It is as [00:22:00] key as starting off with everything is, is re get, [00:22:05] get moving. Get moving. You know, it is, there’s always a tendency to, [00:22:10] there’s always a tendency to hold off.
[00:22:12] Ian: And always a tendency to [00:22:15] wait for another day, one of the greatest maxims, you know, like, [00:22:20] action this day. You know, it’s, it’s like never ever stop doing, driving [00:22:25] forward. And so I, I think that’s the most important thing is, is constantly [00:22:30] be, a source of energy. I always say the people I work with, the only [00:22:35] advantage, the only startups have is speed.
[00:22:38] Ian: Nothing else. We don’t [00:22:40] have talent. We don’t have talent. We never have enough time. We don’t have enough capital. [00:22:45] What we do have is speed. And so, we can get things done faster. [00:22:50] We don’t have, we shouldn’t have large committees to make decisions. It’s only one or two people. And [00:22:55] so therefore, as, as a result, it is maximize that use.
[00:22:59] Ian: They’re really [00:23:00] Move at such a pace that, that, that, the [00:23:05] incumbents, that basically you can, you can, [00:23:10] drive forward at a far quicker pace, speed out incumbents, find ways to [00:23:15] create new markets, keep on testing your hypothesis. So the constant, the constancy is, [00:23:20] is, is, is keep moving, moving fast.
[00:23:23] Ian: That’s one. Let’s [00:23:25] think, I said the other one, which I’ve mentioned in part was [00:23:30] listen, listen to customers. I, I think, I don’t think any company I [00:23:35] ever started. ever ended up being what I intended it to be. I mean, there’s this kind of [00:23:40] overall kind of objectives I want to accomplish in, like the whole lost Einstein’s, what do I [00:23:45] want to come up?
[00:23:45] Ian: I want to help, help, generation of, of, [00:23:50] of, and, and older generations ahead gain access But, [00:23:55] you know, it’s, it’s, it’s staying, it’s listening intently to customers, and, [00:24:00] and be ready to pivot, and, and being, but, but pivot, [00:24:05] once you listen to customers, I mean, it’s, it’s, I, I do know that, that, [00:24:10] Steve Jobs famously, his point was that, Now you don’t need to listen to [00:24:15] customers, you know, I drive customer activity.
[00:24:18] Ian: And he is, is a [00:24:20] outstanding example of that, where he actually created, [00:24:25] created concepts, which we would never thought about. I remember Henry Ford, famously [00:24:30] said if, if he had been told, if he’d listened to customers, how to build a car. They told him [00:24:35] to build a faster horse, you
[00:24:36] Charlie: know, [00:24:40] these
[00:24:40] Ian: are people who are real, sort of, [00:24:45] brilliant in their foresight.
[00:24:47] Ian: I think for the average plod, a [00:24:50] plodder like myself, know, Oh, listen to customers, [00:24:55] pivot, pivot to between, as you’ll learn test cycle, this is [00:25:00] pivot. So you actually find what, what you actually, what they’ll buy from. And [00:25:05] so I think that’s, that’s important. Well, I, I see Henry Ford or Steve [00:25:10] Jobs, but if you’re not.
[00:25:12] Ian: Listen to customers and pivot [00:25:15]
[00:25:15] Charlie: with respect to listen to your customers. I think a lot of our listeners are going to be thinking [00:25:20] yes, but how do you, what would you say is the best method [00:25:25] of? Is it calling them up one by one and speaking to your first thousand personally? Is it [00:25:30] When you’re looking at the website conversions, what what [00:25:35] What should they focus their, their energy on?
[00:25:37] Ian: Yeah, so I’ll give you an example. So [00:25:40] I originally on, I had this idea I had and, [00:25:45] and I end up not pursuing it because I listened to [00:25:50] customers early. It was, it was, so the problem I, the problem I saw in the [00:25:55] marketplace was. There are many, aid agencies all over the world, [00:26:00] particularly in the global south, who need to receive money from, [00:26:05] from the, charity donations that come from, let’s say, north.[00:26:10]
[00:26:10] Ian: And the problem I saw was that most of them are paying way over the odds [00:26:15] on, on exchange fees. And I thought, let’s go and create all these [00:26:20] neobank for the charity sector. A huge opportunity. There’s billions [00:26:25] of dollars spent by charities. So I, that was like market research. [00:26:30] And then I thought to myself, okay, see, there’s a strong opportunity.
[00:26:33] Ian: Let’s now go and talk [00:26:35] to a charity. The actual, challenges themselves. I, I, I scheduled about [00:26:40] 20, 20 interviews. I spoke to these people, asked like, if I could create a [00:26:45] product which would, improve your, you know, improve your, your business, [00:26:50] would you want to, go for it? And, and these conversations evolved over time and I [00:26:55] began to realize actually, it was a really bad idea.
[00:26:58] Ian: And because people. Yes, [00:27:00] of course, they would want to improve their, their, [00:27:05] their, their costs. I mean, it was, it was something that would make sense, but if you dug into it, actually, they don’t [00:27:10] care. I mean, it’s unfair to say this, but truly the people who are the executive [00:27:15] directors in charities are in the business.
[00:27:17] Ian: to, to, to give charity. They’re in the business of [00:27:20] doing good in the, parts of it. It’s not of interest to them. You know, the back office [00:27:25] operations doesn’t get their heart to flutter. You know, they don’t care to somewhat. I mean, [00:27:30] so, so that, and, and, and you see that you do all these analysis of, of like the different [00:27:35] cost structures of charities, and you’re just stunned at how, how, well, this head count, cause anyway.[00:27:40]
[00:27:40] Ian: So it’s, it’s there, but it’s not a priority for them. And I also found out that, [00:27:45] most times the people who are on the boards of these charities, they often have [00:27:50] someone from the A bank on their board. So I would be like knocking on that door saying, Hey, [00:27:55] I would like to be your Neo bank for you in, you know, in the global [00:28:00] South, I could do a better job than any other bank.
[00:28:02] Ian: Oh, by the way, though, your board members [00:28:05] of bank, and then you really don’t care. So I realized I could build that business. I [00:28:10] could, and I probably still be building it today. But it would be a slow, [00:28:15] painful journey. And so it was like, So listening to customers there was like, deep down [00:28:20] saying like every step of that journey, what would be the various [00:28:25] components that would make this successful?
[00:28:26] Ian: So I began to realize it was, yes, there was a [00:28:30] need for the actual onboarding. The customer acquisition would be really, really painful. [00:28:35]
[00:28:36] Thomas: Can I ask you one more question on, on this because I know not necessarily on this, but on the fact [00:28:40] that you said, be ready to pivot. Is there such a thing as, like, [00:28:45] is there a limit to pivoting?
[00:28:46] Thomas: Well, it depends
[00:28:49] Ian: on how [00:28:50] much free capital you, how much capital you have and time you have, you know, but I mean, there [00:28:55] are, you know, you know yourself, Thomas, in the blockchain space. [00:29:00] It is a, a question of survival, you know, it, it is, and, and many decision are like [00:29:05] that is a, can you keep your costs down, so that you [00:29:10] remain, so you can survive.
[00:29:12] Ian: And until the opportunity, [00:29:15] fixed that, may be need market, meaning the regulatory mean meaning, a, a [00:29:20] customer, change of behavior. So, you know, if you really believe an idea and [00:29:25] you believe the idea is, is, is it’s, it’s, it’s on the cusp. And you’re going to dedicate [00:29:30] time for it. Well, and, and, and you have the support of it, [00:29:35] then that is something you may need to listen to the market and pivot, [00:29:40] accordingly.
[00:29:40] Ian: But I would say, you know, after probably external pivots, you probably think [00:29:45] like, is this the right fit for me? If I misjudge the market, is it not ready? Maybe it’s [00:29:50] a never. I’m too early or, that the pain point [00:29:55] isn’t sufficient or the incumbents are too strong. I mean, it’s, so I would say that. [00:30:00] I’d say number of pivots is dependent upon every circumstances, [00:30:05] but, it does, it seems to be a case is, is if you have a strong idea and you believe it’s time is [00:30:10] right, it’s not about us saying, lean and ready to take advantage of when the [00:30:15] time does generate.
[00:30:16] Ian: And that may require some pivots in that, in that timeframe.
[00:30:19] Thomas: That makes [00:30:20] sense. I fully agree. Definitely when it comes to blockchain, but I think not only for blockchain, I think any [00:30:25] emerging tech industry. Has, has that, that piece where you just, if, if you [00:30:30] think it’s right, this applies, right? AI is a very good example at this point to [00:30:35] our LLMs actually.
[00:30:37] Charlie: So, what would be your, your, [00:30:40] let’s say third or fourth point for our, for our listeners?
[00:30:44] Ian: Yeah. So, [00:30:45] this is around basically, software. So [00:30:50] you ca solve so much now with these new [00:30:55] AI tools and you’re seeing companies Basically being built with very, very small [00:31:00] teams. And that definitely lowers the, the barrier to entry.
[00:31:04] Ian: And I [00:31:05] learned the, the,m, from the, the wrong end of [00:31:10] this. And I saw, so when, when we were at Yumi, Yumi was a company that you were fortunate [00:31:15] enough to take public, where we started out, we were, there was a, it [00:31:20] was a technology company, but a lot of the back office was done in Southeast Asia.[00:31:25]
[00:31:25] Ian: And it gave us a tremendous advantage because we could, [00:31:30] we could basically have very low cost way to get great engineers and we built it, we went public and [00:31:35] tested it. But the problem was, was that we became dependent on that [00:31:40] structure. And while we had been building out this, this sort of, this [00:31:45] large team, our competitors, some of them hadn’t gone public yet, [00:31:50] had built basically an all data trading platform.
[00:31:53] Ian: And as a result, [00:31:55] over time, it became increasingly clear that we couldn’t iterate as fast as [00:32:00] they could. And that actually became part of our undoing ultimately, [00:32:05] and we now again acquired as a puppetry company by another company. So, but so it was, it was [00:32:10] example of, of, of, of take advantage of [00:32:15] all these tools out there that you may give yourself a short term, [00:32:20] accelerant by, by, by using people to do something, but in this [00:32:25] world, it doesn’t, long term doesn’t make any sense, so, so.
[00:32:28] Ian: I always, [00:32:30] encourage people to think about new tools. One that the, the actual newsletters, [00:32:35] and everyone wants to subscribe to it, they can think about this is a kind called superhuman. ai. I [00:32:40] recommend people, you know, look at that one. It’s a, it’s a great, daily [00:32:45] digest of some of the new productivity tools that are being created.
[00:32:48] Ian: And, and it’s, [00:32:50] it’s a great way to keep up to date with them.
[00:32:53] Thomas: I’m actually, I’m actually [00:32:55] subscribed to them. They have really good content. And, and you’d be surprised how [00:33:00] many new tools come out every day to various [00:33:05] degrees of quality.
[00:33:06] Ian: Yeah, it’s great fun to try them out. I mean, there is, but [00:33:10] you do realize.
[00:33:11] Ian: that this is the downside of [00:33:15] the, the, just the sheer simplicity of now to create products, [00:33:20] is, is, is just an abundance. And maybe there’s a scenario one, like all [00:33:25] sheer products that get created, which actually goes to back to my other point, which is, You [00:33:30] know, you really have to think how to find something very competitive [00:33:35] and, and, and value add, and, and really listen to your customers intently to get to [00:33:40] that point, because it’s so easy in the software industry to build, build [00:33:45] tech.
[00:33:45] Charlie: The two that I’ll take away from that is, is human scale can, can be a [00:33:50] liability at some point you’ve got to use that technology and then superhuman AI keeping on top of what’s coming [00:33:55] out now.
[00:33:55] Thomas: And
[00:33:57] Charlie: leveraging that to accelerate the [00:34:00] business that you’re building, with the perspective of [00:34:05] understanding motivations of VCs and looking at the market [00:34:10] landscape, if you were going to look at a new market landscape, what would you be doing?
[00:34:13] Charlie: What would be the first [00:34:15] thing that you’d have to say, okay, this is 100 percent a good idea [00:34:20] or not?
[00:34:22] Ian: So I think from the point of view of VCs is, [00:34:25] is to understand, you know, their thesis. You know, [00:34:30] every VC, this is, I think a lot of entrepreneurs, [00:34:35] the first time founders don’t understand the full ecosystem.
[00:34:38] Ian: As a quick explanation, so [00:34:40] VCs themselves, have their own bosses. They’re called limited partners. Limited [00:34:45] partners are, and they could be university endowments. They could be [00:34:50] institutional, large scale fund managers. So they invest in, in venture capitalists. Venture [00:34:55] capitalists have to every, maybe, four to eight years, depending upon the [00:35:00] cycle of their fund, or go out and try and secure additional capital, additional [00:35:05] capital from these limited partners to invest.
[00:35:07] Ian: And they’re out there pitching themselves, just [00:35:10] like you, as I don’t know, pitching to VCs. These VCs pitch to their partners. [00:35:15] And when they’re pitching, they have to demonstrate what is uniquely different [00:35:20] about their fund. Because just like I just mentioned, all these software companies, [00:35:25] there’s many of them.
[00:35:26] Ian: There are literally nowadays thousands of VC funds. Particularly, [00:35:30] there was a huge boom. Bump in VC, new, new first time fund managers [00:35:35] back in like late 2018 to 2022 or so. [00:35:40] So there’s a lot of, of, of people pitching these independent partners. They all have to come up with their unique thesis. Their [00:35:45] thesis is what you as entrepreneurs should, should understand.
[00:35:48] Ian: Who, [00:35:50] whose thesis matches what I am building [00:35:55] and where is that VC in their, their, their fund distribution. So if [00:36:00] you, talk to a VC, and they’ve spent all their capital, you’re just [00:36:05] wasting your time. They, and, and there are a number of VCs that are out there [00:36:10] who. Who basically either, have chosen [00:36:15] to, to not invest, I think, sometimes the valuations are too, too high or they’re too, [00:36:20] too depressed.
[00:36:20] Ian: And I think they can basically wait out longer to try and get even a [00:36:25] better, better price. So, so I think that it’s, it’s, it’s understanding the motivations [00:36:30] of that, VC, their, their fund and, and, and where they are [00:36:35] in their fund cycle. So that, that’s important to understand. And then the [00:36:40] other piece is, is, is trying to find ways to, know [00:36:45] and have connections to the best, the best way to, [00:36:50] digital DCs is, is, is to actually have an deduction.
[00:36:53] Ian: So find someone [00:36:55] who, who knows, who knows someone either one of their portfolio companies. [00:37:00] Or the VC themselves, but either way, try to get a warm introduction in, into them. [00:37:05] So therefore, as you’re entering a new market, think about who are the right VCs or the right partners, how the [00:37:10] best way to get in touch with them.
[00:37:12] Ian: And then another thing that I see as well is, is I think, [00:37:15] is to understand the motivations within a VC fund. Once [00:37:20] you’ve pitched, so, you know, this year, fortunate enough, you’ve now got your VC [00:37:25] interview. You had, you know, your half an hour, hour long discussion, so [00:37:30] you’re likely to be speaking to an associate analyst or maybe a [00:37:35] principal.
[00:37:35] Ian: It’s a decent sized company. Maybe it’s one, it’s a small fund, maybe the, [00:37:40] managing partner or general partner. And, and, At that stage, they [00:37:45] may be talking to, you know, many, many companies like it. They may be just trying to understand the landscapes. They don’t think [00:37:50] a meeting means you’re like, you’re, you can start cashing the check [00:37:55] already.M, so, and the other thing to think about too is, is, is what happens in [00:38:00] VC funds. Typically most VC funds every month, they have a partner meeting and when [00:38:05] they’ll have someone who then say, I’ve got this suggesting opportunity. [00:38:10] And, and this is the this is why I think it’s at the AF camp of their own [00:38:15] thesis and why it maps to the thesis of the fund.
[00:38:18] Ian: And so they presented to [00:38:20] the fund. And then there’s those often a vote or [00:38:25] there is some form of decision making where, ends up, there’s some interesting, [00:38:30] analysis done actually on, on VC fund thinking, where like, [00:38:35] in terms of like, does it, should you get a majority or is it a small [00:38:40] minority, sometimes a small minority is more likely to get, A,m, a, [00:38:45] a a a, a, a confirmed and definitive minority is a better [00:38:50] decision from a VC than the majority of the VC final.
[00:38:53] Ian: I explain what you might mean by that. [00:38:55] If there is one partner who a hundred percent believes in this deal as [00:39:00] opposed to, maybe there’s lukewarm interest, but as a majority goes over the line. [00:39:05] It’s the former is better than the latter. It’s, it’s conviction is what [00:39:10] is, is, is a key characteristic of VCs making decisions.
[00:39:13] Ian: They need to have conviction [00:39:15] in the fact that your opportunity, your, your business is going to [00:39:20] make, enough returns, to, to be able to, to generate [00:39:25] a, it’s a venture return, which is, you know, at a [00:39:30] minim like three or four X, the capital they put into you. So, it is [00:39:35] a, and it’s been proven that, conviction based investing, [00:39:40] is, is a stronger format, because you’re going to find.
[00:39:43] Ian: Individual opportunities, [00:39:45] which may may otherwise be be lost if you just simply make a decision [00:39:50] on on the majority. So this is some of the so the insights that. That happened within, within [00:39:55] VC firms to think about that it’s not just you, it’s like what’s happening internally [00:40:00] with their VC fund and how and their decision making, and, and, and, and, [00:40:05] and understand that it may take time.
[00:40:06] Ian: It’s not just because that they’re, they’re, they’re Twitter thumbs, [00:40:10] they’re actually really deeply thinking about how the, your opportunity compared to many others that could be [00:40:15] coming now, the next, because their, their funds are like. Eight years that they have [00:40:20] time to like make a decision. They don’t need to make investments.
[00:40:23] Ian: They have to think very carefully [00:40:25] about, is this opportunity, the right time, the right place to invest and does it [00:40:30] fit with my, sort of the portfolio we’re looking to create here.
[00:40:34] Charlie: Amazing. [00:40:35] As a VC, what would you be looking for [00:40:40] from a company? So maybe coming at that from a different angle.
[00:40:44] Ian: Well, so [00:40:45] with this new fund, Infrastructure Ventures.
[00:40:48] Ian: I am, what we do is [00:40:50] we invest, we’d actually invest, we, we, we, [00:40:55] we, we still take 5 percent equity in all the companies that we built. We’re not, we are, we go through, they go [00:41:00] through a process of, of, of, of identifying these individuals [00:41:05] from the global South as a course. It’s a 12 week course, the first four weeks all online.[00:41:10]
[00:41:10] Ian: And they go through that and then they pass that, then they come out to Lisbon. And then they have another [00:41:15] two months. At that point, we then form a company. So it’s more like a venture studio [00:41:20] rather than a traditional fund. We, we create a, investment in these [00:41:25] individuals and they, and they’re part of, of, of our portfolio.
[00:41:28] Ian: We do have the [00:41:30] opportunity to make follow on investment, but that normally is dependent upon a signal from an [00:41:35] external investor making, making an investment themselves. So [00:41:40] we, our approach is, is, is not to be, so to let [00:41:45] our approach with this is, is, is basically to create a venture studio [00:41:50] with thousands of companies.
[00:41:53] Ian: It’s, it’s more, [00:41:55] a filtering exercise. picking individual winners and having a [00:42:00] small 2030 portfolio sized fund. It’s a, it’s a very different [00:42:05] model because what we’re looking to do here with Infrastructure Ventures is kind of [00:42:10] lost Einstein concept is we need to get to scale, a scale, which is It’s probably [00:42:15] unseen before because of the sheer opportunity that it affords [00:42:20] us in front of us.
[00:42:20] Ian: Now, if we have the whole, the global South, we can’t be doing an [00:42:25] investment authority of 30 companies. If you want to like find zero to one, our view is this [00:42:30] is an untapped market for finding a lot, finding people [00:42:35] early on. And we have some interesting tech that we built that can find basically [00:42:40] these entrepreneurs.
[00:42:41] Ian: Way before anyone else does, and we, when we use this tech to go and [00:42:45] like proactively find them, reach out to them and engage them and say, I see you are about [00:42:50] to start a company. I would like to, work with you. So it’s like, we are different than [00:42:55] most venture studios or venture funders that we actually practically go out and search, find these [00:43:00] companies.
[00:43:00] Ian: We have less inbound, more us practically finding. That’s a slightly different, different model. [00:43:05]
[00:43:05] Thomas: And it’s, I think also, in, in this sense, a bit easier for entrepreneurs, [00:43:10] because they need lesuh, [00:43:15] outbound themselves. Like you will be inbound, right? But what, what, what, what kind of skills [00:43:20] are you looking for when you’re doing this outbound?
[00:43:21] Thomas: Like when you look at these entrepreneurs, like how do you match them [00:43:25] up? with your, your investment thesis, at, at, Infrastructure. [00:43:30] Adventures.
[00:43:30] Ian: Yeah. So, the, the, the key CIDR we’re looking for is, the [00:43:35] build activity. So there are a number of databases out there [00:43:40] that we are constantly looking at that give us a sense of what people are building, [00:43:45] what tech they’re building, and then be able to evaluate their tech independently.
[00:43:49] Ian: So [00:43:50] we’re able to, to see their, their, their history of activity. So we’re [00:43:55] trying to use. Public data sets as a way to help make [00:44:00] decisions. And actually, this is very similar to my, my, the company called Acute IQ. I, I [00:44:05] formed. About six or seven years ago, the one that we’re in AI and fintech and [00:44:10] that company, I created a database of 21 million [00:44:15] small business company records, and then ran, government [00:44:20] data, open government data against it to find signals, signals of, of, [00:44:25] of a need for small business need alone.
[00:44:28] Ian: And so we find, for example, that [00:44:30] a small business had a liquor license. It’s about to expire. And therefore, because of [00:44:35] that is a good reason for a bank to reach out and ask that person if they wanted a [00:44:40] loan. So think about the same concept now as I’m applying to people in the global South. [00:44:45] Now there’s a very large set of people, looking for signals, signals [00:44:50] that, that would suggest that someone is building something.
[00:44:53] Ian: And then there’s a signal also that [00:44:55] they, they’re building something which could be interestingly relevant. Okay. And, and, and relevant [00:45:00] to, to sort of, innovation that we think is, is, is, it [00:45:05] could, could benefit from access to capital. And so that, that’s what we then [00:45:10] use, then, reach out to these people, invite them to, to, [00:45:15] to come and come for the first four weeks, which is again online.
[00:45:18] Ian: And then if they pass the sort of, [00:45:20] a series of tests, Which is like, tests around their idea. We do peer based [00:45:25] learning, and tests as well. So this is a way that we sort of make sure we create a. [00:45:30] individuals who are curious, willing to learn and [00:45:35] if they feel upon that, then we then have the chance to, to bring them out [00:45:40] here to Portugal and we then form a company and then they then they do the [00:45:45] other two, two months of, Of, of, of, of, of activities, [00:45:50] we do things like, you know, how to, price your product, how to build a sales and marketing strategy, how [00:45:55] to build your product, how to use AI tools to help build a product.
[00:45:59] Ian: So we’re trying [00:46:00] to think of constant ways to improve the operations. It really draws upon the playbook, the [00:46:05] playbook I developed. Whether it’s at Salvador Research Institute or my own [00:46:10] companies, I’m recently working with Binance and Arwe. This is a playbook of how to help companies go [00:46:15] from zero to one.
[00:46:16] Thomas: It’s, it’s absolutely fantastic. And I think that, [00:46:20] you know, to your last like, minute, I think it’s very important for founders to, to [00:46:25] understand, to know what they don’t know, because in that case, they’re, [00:46:30] they’re easier to supplement with, with, in this case, from your [00:46:35] side. Like you can add faster value to their companies [00:46:40] because they already know what they don’t know.
[00:46:41] Thomas: Right. Like, I think that’s a, that’s a very important piece, with [00:46:45] founders. Generally.
[00:46:46] Ian: And then the other thing that we’ve also found is, is our [00:46:50] programming and that we’ve created, it’s all self directed and peer based [00:46:55] learning and, and, and reason why that’s important is that, There’s a, there’s a [00:47:00] tendency of most founders to think that their idea is the best thing since dry spread and they don’t [00:47:05] dare share it with anyone else in case someone steals it and runs away with a brilliant idea.
[00:47:08] Ian: But in fact, that’s a [00:47:10] massive fallacy because there are lots of ideas. Well, the hardest thing is execution. [00:47:15] It’s like timing, market timing, execution. And so therefore what we have found is [00:47:20] that by creating this program where it’s Peer based learning. So the idea is that you’re in this [00:47:25] program, there’s a cohort of other people like you.
[00:47:28] Ian: We provide, so the, the, the, [00:47:30] the core pillars of, of, of, of insight on each topic, let’s say it’s a sales marketing, [00:47:35] pricing, like what are the, what are the different types of pricing you could use? Then we do a pricing [00:47:40] exercise, and then we have a, a peer based review exercise. And that’s great [00:47:45] because then you have other people.
[00:47:46] Ian: You know, review your idea, your peers, [00:47:50] and then actually, we find the most interesting thing is actually when people [00:47:55] review other people’s. actual, company ideas. That’s when they learn the [00:48:00] most. There’s a famous thing like, you know, the best way is to learn is to teach. And so we [00:48:05] find that actually being in a position where you are peer based reviewing someone [00:48:10] else’s idea, and, and then the merits of their pricing [00:48:15] strategy or their go to market strategy helps you think more clearly about your own.
[00:48:18] Ian: And so we find that to be a [00:48:20] great program. And this is this program that we use. done so [00:48:25] well in other instances. You look at like some of the top, the top tools out [00:48:30] there for, for coders. So there’s, this thing called 42, which is a, a group, [00:48:35] which is now I think pushed to, it’s like 20 people are coding [00:48:40] and they have found this peer based review, learning has [00:48:45] been far more effective.
[00:48:46] Ian: Then there’s additional, I’m in a classroom, here you go. This is [00:48:50] the, listen to me. And then, I’ll test you two months, three months out. [00:48:55]
[00:48:56] Charlie: I’m mindful of time. So I’m going to ask for your [00:49:00] know yourself pre post IPO, your final rule [00:49:05] or couple of rules and advice for startup founders.
[00:49:08] Ian: Yeah. So this is, [00:49:10] so it’s somewhat like knowing where, what you’d like to [00:49:15] do.
[00:49:15] Ian: And, and almost what you don’t like to do. [00:49:20] So, I found it easy to know what I wasn’t good at. And I [00:49:25] definitely, I think I’m not good at like, if you think about the startup, the whole [00:49:30] post IPO, world, I really enjoy [00:49:35] helping companies at the pre, so the startup was the zero [00:49:40] to, I suppose, three or four, zero to one is I focus on most right now, but [00:49:45] I really found that it’s important to know yourself because [00:49:50] if you know what you like to do, then they will help you be [00:49:55] more effective at doing it.
[00:49:56] Ian: It’s so that, so it really is, is, is, is, is back, it [00:50:00] goes back to the, you know, the idea about the pivoting. If you really believe an idea [00:50:05] and, and, and you think that this is, you just can’t stop thinking about it, wake up in the middle of the night. Think [00:50:10] about the idea. Then do that, you know, know yourself, [00:50:15] do that.
[00:50:15] Ian: Don’t waste, don’t listen and be persuaded to, to forgo, for like [00:50:20] your, your, you know, I suppose your dream or, [00:50:25] or, or, or your, you don’t have regrets, you know, don’t have regrets. Like, often [00:50:30] people ask me like, about their idea and I say, you know, this [00:50:35] is my opinion, but just go for it. You know, it’s, it is, it is.
[00:50:39] Ian: There’s no reason [00:50:40] why you should not go out. If you got an idea that just is just, just bubbling inside, [00:50:45] you do it. You know? And, and, and you, and, and if it doesn’t work out, do another [00:50:50] one or, or find something else. But at least try and, and, and, and find a way to, to, to, to, [00:50:55] to actually go and, and build a startup if that’s what you wanna do.
[00:50:57] Ian: So know yourself, [00:51:00] and, and, and be able to. And as I say, action is day, [00:51:05] if you want to do it, do something, go and do it now. Don’t, don’t wait. Don’t procrastinate. [00:51:10]
[00:51:11] Thomas: I’ve heard the same thing as like builder, sustainer and evolver, right? [00:51:15] Like know what you are in order to put yourself in the best role.
[00:51:18] Thomas: If you’re, if you’re a builder, that’s great. [00:51:20] But you hit V1 or, or post IPO, you might not want to be in that role [00:51:25] anymore because. different things are being asked from that role that maybe a year ago was very [00:51:30] good for you, but a year later might not be because of the company, [00:51:35] circumstances that change.
[00:51:37] Thomas: Yeah, it’s a good word for the
[00:51:38] Ian: band. Yeah, but post IP, yeah, [00:51:40] there’s a much more process driven and there’s, it’s harder [00:51:45] to, at that point, pivots have a significant impact.[00:51:50]
[00:51:53] Thomas: Well, now, now it depends on [00:51:55] something.
[00:51:57] Charlie: So pushing onto the research of [00:52:00] brainstorms, there’s, there’s one piece we’ve covered in depth already, but I think it’s [00:52:05] worth sort of summarizing in terms of bridging the gaps, the lost Einstein’s and your [00:52:10] current work with infrastructure ventures, especially. We, I know we’ve talked about how you [00:52:15] identify these technical founders in the global South.
[00:52:18] Charlie: What is the unique [00:52:20] market opportunity? And, and once we know what the challenges sort of [00:52:25] identifying them, what, what do you think the, [00:52:30] the main aim here is, is to sort of drive the innovation and the economic growth and [00:52:35] how this is going to sort of maybe even change the game?
[00:52:38] Ian: Yeah. My, [00:52:40] my intention with Invisible Adventures is to, build really the biggest [00:52:45] incubator, out in terms of, of, of, of [00:52:50] driving this, solving this problem around the, the, the global south, this mismatch between [00:52:55] talent and capital.
[00:52:56] Ian: And, and obviously there’s, there’s a danger that, that, you know, [00:53:00] you, you, You build a large number of companies and [00:53:05] know that, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a signal to [00:53:10] noise ratio. So the key is, is you have to be able to identify, [00:53:15] early on, what is why our training processes are so important.[00:53:20]
[00:53:20] Ian: Finding the people with the right. mindset, [00:53:25] the curious mindset that they’re having an idea and the right mindset. And so for [00:53:30] us, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s finding that, that the right entrepreneurs, [00:53:35] and, and, and, and they break through this program of training, so they’re given the best chance, [00:53:40] but the key thing is we’re not looking to.
[00:53:42] Ian: Bring them to Portugal, [00:53:45] to remain in Portugal, our objective is to send them, you know, go back and build in your own [00:53:50] country, but now have the training, the knowledge, [00:53:55] the resources. That you can build in, in, in your own country. I know you mentioned [00:54:00] your own child about the challenges you are facing in, in, in, in Indonesia.
[00:54:03] Ian: Some people are facing it in [00:54:05] Indonesia. So if you could, you know, have a chance to be trained [00:54:10] up and then, then go back. And what we do is we create for these, [00:54:15] Founders who come to our program, a, an EU based company. So therefore they [00:54:20] have the, a vehicle, that they can then use to raise capital because [00:54:25] so many times that, that we came across people who, and we also brought them a bank [00:54:30] account too, that as well, we get them a bank account and a company based out here.
[00:54:34] Ian: And the reason why that’s [00:54:35] important is that, you know, you hear individuals that say in Pakistan who can’t get [00:54:40] A, an account on Shopify. Why? Well, because they don’t have a bank account. They don’t have a [00:54:45] recognized bank account or, or they don’t have, or they just don’t have confidence. In [00:54:50] the, corporate structure of a, you know, Brazil based [00:54:55] company or one in, in, in, in, in, in, in any, [00:55:00] anywhere where it’s not considered a similar, standard of, of governance.
[00:55:04] Ian: [00:55:05] And so therefore, we are trying to find a way our big, big, big objective is to, [00:55:10] is to bring great talent, nurture it, and then serve back to build amazing [00:55:15] companies in the global South.
[00:55:18] Charlie: It’s brilliant. I mean, [00:55:20] one of the things that I found fascinating and wanted to talk to you about actually was [00:55:25] how do you navigate that?
[00:55:26] Charlie: So obviously you did quite a bit of work on the bio and sort of research [00:55:30] you going into this conversation, from fintech to [00:55:35] marketing tech, to cybersecurity, to telco, to blockchain. It’s quite [00:55:40] a story arc, frankly, in terms of specialization. So when [00:55:45] you will specificity in, in the sector that you’re working in.[00:55:50]
[00:55:50] Charlie: When you’re going into a business, and this is really for our viewers, it’s something to really [00:55:55] dig into. And even for people that might be interested in infrastructure ventures is [00:56:00] what, what is the process you go through of identifying [00:56:05] a space in, in emerging technology? What, what is the, [00:56:10] what goes through your head?
[00:56:12] Ian: Well, I think it first of all starts off, what are the macro [00:56:15] trends? And in that, [00:56:20] from, from from that perspective, where is a, where is the, the, the, the [00:56:25] market need, the customer, the customer need. And then behind that will then [00:56:30] likely follow the, the capital, to support that. So there’s, there’s the macro, [00:56:35] view and then diving into the specifics.
[00:56:38] Ian: It’s like understanding, [00:56:40] what, what are the, the dy dynamics of the market you’re going [00:56:45] into? Who are the, the leading companies? What, what amount [00:56:50] of capital is available and what is the, experience of companies deploying capital, [00:56:55] and then, and then to start talking to people. So [00:57:00] I gave you the example earlier on about the, Neo bank for the fin, for the, [00:57:05] charity sector.
[00:57:06] Ian: I was talking to 20 people. I mean, by the time I, if I [00:57:10] continue that, I should have talked about 50 people. I try and talk to about 20 to 50 people. [00:57:15] And the advantage, like fine of this approach is that. Is that once I started talking [00:57:20] to, to, to individuals, I start to get their opinion. I then [00:57:25] almost co opt them into helping me out because I will, I then say, no, [00:57:30] I’ve listened to what you say and I’ve learned further about this.
[00:57:33] Ian: And, [00:57:35] can you now be my, alpha or beta customer? And so [00:57:40] because you’ve brought them on the journey, you’re more likely to transition those 20 [00:57:45] or 30 people you’ve spoken to, if they represent little customers into their potential [00:57:50] customers. And now you have someone who is, is, is feels it’s, this [00:57:55] is part of them.
[00:57:56] Ian: And a similar example of this is [00:58:00] in, on the venture side is that that’s on the Max and Zelle. Herd is. If you want to, [00:58:05] if you want to basically, raise money, ask for advice. [00:58:10] If you want to get advice, ask for money. So is the thing is, is, [00:58:15] is, is that you, they learn from customers and ask them [00:58:20] for their advice.
[00:58:21] Ian: And who may actually get customers at the back [00:58:25] end of it. And then, and then there’s, that’s like listening to people and, [00:58:30] and having a hypothesis concept, which is this sort of scientific method, which is like [00:58:35] trying as much as you can divorce yourself from the system. The idea, yes, you’re [00:58:40] clearly passionate about it and you wouldn’t be doing it otherwise, but, try to find a way that you’ll [00:58:45] want to remove from it.
[00:58:45] Ian: Like, this is my idea and I want to improve upon this idea. It’s [00:58:50] a hypothesis, let’s test it. And you start talking to me, but I’d say, Hey, Thomas, I got [00:58:55] a hypothesis. I love the, on the market. I’d like to share that with you [00:59:00] and I’m getting your feedback. And so that then, then you begin to, to, to [00:59:05] frame it as that kind of scientific method.
[00:59:06] Ian: And, and then ideally. you’re less [00:59:10] likely to, to be, captured by the, the, [00:59:15] by the, the momentum that can sometimes come if you just [00:59:20] follow what you believe. And that’s even more the case in technical first time founders who [00:59:25] often, have a, basically a technical hammer and constantly looking for nails to hammer it in.
[00:59:29] Ian: [00:59:30] But actually, you know, you, you, you, as much as you can, like, try to [00:59:35] treat it as, as, as, as a, as a, as an experiment that needs to be validated.
[00:59:39] Charlie: [00:59:40] I think that’s brilliant. When you’re, when you’re looking [00:59:45] at these investments. And, and really it’s, it’s kind of all investment because one’s an investment at [00:59:50] time and the other is, is your capital.
[00:59:53] Charlie: When you’re looking for [00:59:55] signals and trends from both sides of that table. what, [01:00:00] what would indicate to you or, you know, through, through your [01:00:05] experience, what has indicated to you a ripe, Opportunity [01:00:10] to say, okay, I’m, I am going to work in this industry right now, or [01:00:15] something that our viewers or potential students and [01:00:20] cohorts of infrastructure ventures can go, well, Ian said, this is, this is the right way to [01:00:25] go about looking for the opportunity to see, this could give me the best chance of getting in touch.
[01:00:29] Charlie: Yeah,
[01:00:29] Ian: [01:00:30] I’d say that, that. The one that the strongest signals that is, that [01:00:35] I found to be helpful to break into a market is if there’s some, [01:00:40] you know, regulatory change that is [01:00:45] coming, down the pipeline. And where someone else or some [01:00:50] change that requires, Customers to think differently, and, [01:00:55] and pushes out this is as, as an issue they may not have thought about before, [01:01:00] because there’s such a, a, he would never [01:01:05] quite appreciate how much, how hard it is to get people to [01:01:10] change, you know, they often say, you know, your product needs to be like 10X improvement on the [01:01:15] incumbent.
[01:01:15] Ian: To, to have a chance of basically taking, a [01:01:20] customer taking an interest in you. Because the switching costs are so high, because think about it from the point of view of the [01:01:25] customer, again, put yourself in the customer’s shoes. There you are, you’re talking to like, you know, the VP, if you’re [01:01:30] lucky, of, of this Lion Lander.
[01:01:31] Ian: He has to not, this is a significant [01:01:35] cost to the business. He has to get a lot of people in his organization to agree that this is a problem and [01:01:40] agree the problem is right now. And then he has to get budget for it. Bluebird has no budget. They’re afraid to eat. [01:01:45] And then, other priorities may come up, you know, and, and, [01:01:50] and depending on the market, there may be this, a round of, of cuts and this is, [01:01:55] so there’s, there’s, there’s so much that, that could go wrong.
[01:01:58] Ian: But if you [01:02:00] identify a, a change that is, is, is required, in the [01:02:05] marketplace, then this is something that you can align yourself with [01:02:10] and, it’s much easier to, to wedge yourself into discussions through [01:02:15] that.
[01:02:15] Charlie: So there’s a question here. You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to, [01:02:20] but, again, this is, this is all towards sort of driving our readers towards actually looking at a market [01:02:25] before running head, head first into, into an opportunity that, as you [01:02:30] say, is just really exciting.
[01:02:32] Charlie: How do you [01:02:35] predict the next big wave in technology?
[01:02:38] Thomas: Is it that, that famous [01:02:40] glass ball you’ve been telling us about off, off screen or?
[01:02:44] Ian: [01:02:45] There is, I, so I suppose [01:02:50] the one piece I’ll share with you, which is, is, is, is, is a reason why I’m [01:02:55] interested in the blockchain space. And I suppose it’s a reflection of the fact that I was, [01:03:00] I started off in the, in the telecoms space, where I begun, is that, as I [01:03:05] mentioned earlier, some people have got into the, into the blockchain, world [01:03:10] because, they, they read the white paper and, and, and [01:03:15] have got, of, of, clamped onto that, or, or they, a friend of theirs is [01:03:20] buying crypto and, and, and, and told her to do so as well.
[01:03:23] Ian: But my story is far [01:03:25] more prosaic. My story. Was that I, [01:03:30] I saw the evolution of the technology. I said to myself, look at the scenarios, the, you know, on [01:03:35] premises. On premises, sort of storage, [01:03:40] and, and, and basically the idea of all your, your, technology is in the [01:03:45] office, you know, there’s like, remember the old days, you have like a server below the desk, you know, that’s on premises.[01:03:50]
[01:03:50] Ian: And then with, with Amazon in, in like 2005 onwards, I should say onwards, [01:03:55] Amazon created like, cloud based, cloud based computing. At the [01:04:00] time, everyone said, why would I put my secure [01:04:05] data in the cloud? I mean, it was unbelievable because it would say like, I want to be able to take my resources [01:04:10] down to the basement and show them that is where the data is stored, why would I want to put it [01:04:15] up in some random cloud, everyone can look at it.
[01:04:18] Ian: And it took actually some like, I think the [01:04:20] Pentagon and then Johnson Johnson, a few other companies. to, to, to work with Amazon [01:04:25] and suddenly the market changed. And then everyone thinks like, Oh, it’s quite normal to put the [01:04:30] content in the cloud. And so the next evolution to me naturally is [01:04:35] decentralized cloud computing because it’s cheaper and you can look at it because.
[01:04:39] Ian: You can see the [01:04:40] trends happening today at the top, top of the, the stack, the stack being like, [01:04:45] we think like the stack behind the application of all there, you know, the, the middleware, [01:04:50] the hardware, et cetera. And then all the chip. So think of the, the top of the, the top of the [01:04:55] stack right now is, it’s commonplace, everyone thinks about.
[01:04:59] Ian: [01:05:00] Decentralized, applications. What is Uber? It’s a decentralized [01:05:05] application. It’s a, means you don’t need to have a taxi company to buy a taxi service. [01:05:10] What’s Airbnb? You don’t need to have hotels to offer, you know, [01:05:15] basically guests to stay in different, different hotels. So the idea being is [01:05:20] that if that’s the application of a layer bound to come down, [01:05:25] into the lower part of the stack, and that’s a trend [01:05:30] that I saw.
[01:05:30] Ian: That’s why. I go into blockchain was because I saw ultimately [01:05:35] that is going down. Blockchain is the sort of middleware the [01:05:40] protocol and then, and then basically that, that, that, the, the, the layer of, of, of tech [01:05:45] is, is a natural blockchain or will be the next step after [01:05:50] Amazon centralized to be decentralized.
[01:05:52] Ian: Can people still have something we want to centralize [01:05:55] the, the evolution of tech will go to decentralized. [01:06:00] Well,
[01:06:01] Thomas: it does require some experience in, in, in the tech [01:06:05] market, or I think generally experience in the industries that you worked in and maybe some skeptical views as well [01:06:10] in order to say, well, you know, this, it actually makes sense to go [01:06:15] this direction.
[01:06:15] Thomas: I remember when I, worked for an agency and we did supply [01:06:20] chain, software, and at some point, like, you know, I started doing blockchain talking to that 17, [01:06:25] and then we started to do another supply chain, supply [01:06:30] chain project, and I realized. Why are we doing this like on, and this was [01:06:35] 2017. So, you know, blockchain tech was not that far.
[01:06:37] Thomas: I was pretty far away for, from what it is [01:06:40] right now. We, I was, I was realizing why, why are we not [01:06:45] doing these supply chain things on blockchain? Because blockchain is like the perfect layer for supply chains. But in [01:06:50] order to see that, like I’ve been then already working, I was then already working 10 years in tech, right?
[01:06:54] Thomas: So [01:06:55] I’ve been doing supply chain and SaaS and all these other things. I [01:07:00] could then understand like, Hey, there’s actually an opportunity to do this on blockchain. But if you are, you [01:07:05] need to have some point, some point of, of, of call it like an, [01:07:10] an intro or, or a perspective on the market and in order to actually come to those, [01:07:15] views, right.
[01:07:17] Thomas: To an extent,
[01:07:18] Ian: I would say that, yes, it helped the helpful. [01:07:20] I mean, the one, I, I, I don’t provided the recommendation that the [01:07:25] people. Subscribe to the superhuman. ai [01:07:30] newsletter. If people have the chance, I’d recommend a podcast. [01:07:35] It’s called Founders. The Founders podcast is a really interesting, it takes [01:07:40] the, it’s this individual who basically reads, you [01:07:45] know, hundreds of biographies and commutes them around key [01:07:50] individuals and shows how these individuals have many similar traits.
[01:07:53] Ian: It’s a great learning [01:07:55] experience. To, to understand what are, some of the, the, [01:08:00] the common characteristics that make, successful [01:08:05] entrepreneurs. So yes, Thomas, I think, you know, knowing that having someone selling at the marketplace is [01:08:10] helpful, but you raise some of these stories and generally actually, you know, if you, if [01:08:15] you,m, if you think about like what biographies, biographies [01:08:20] are, like business biographies are an untapped Jeb, my view.
[01:08:23] Ian: It’s because [01:08:25] what a business biography is, is it’s, you know, you know, 50 or so years of [01:08:30] someone, or not longer, in a business where they’ve been successful, distilling their ideas [01:08:35] into, you know, 200 pages for you to read. [01:08:40] What is the best way to learn about, [01:08:45] innovation and, and, and because human nature is repetitive.
[01:08:47] Ian: We’re not reinventing the, the, [01:08:50] the, we’re not doing anything new here. It’s all pretty much the same human. Humans have a [01:08:55] similar, interest to build, innovate, et cetera, for, for, for millennia. [01:09:00] But what is interesting is that how, what are the approach these people have taken? And so I think it is, [01:09:05] I’m saying the market is very helpful, but I’m looking for, for, [01:09:10] traits, and, and insights in, in as much as we, as in, [01:09:15] as the individual is equally important and you can do that.
[01:09:18] Ian: By, by reading [01:09:20] some of the, stories, the parts almost like befriend, befriend the, [01:09:25] the long dead Chris, business heroes, I suppose. [01:09:30]
[01:09:31] Charlie: We’ve talked and I’ve pushed a little bit. I’m mindful of [01:09:35] how you look at a market and how you, Sort of [01:09:40] judge a market landscape and what you personally do it. The, the one piece that I [01:09:45] think is just missing for that equation is this last bit, which is, how do you know [01:09:50] you’ve, you’ve actually stumbled across something?
[01:09:52] Charlie: What, what is the, what are the criteria? I [01:09:55] mean, obviously someone buying something from you and, you know, VC giving you [01:10:00] money, but there’s a spectrum in there where you can see, okay, this many [01:10:05] people are willing to buy what we’re selling. Where does that line sit for you?
[01:10:09] Ian: Well, it [01:10:10] depends tremendously on, on each and every company and that.
[01:10:14] Ian: [01:10:15] But I’d say that in, in, in general, you [01:10:20] have this sense of, if you’re sitting on a company, which is. is, is taking [01:10:25] up, you know, it is the, you know, problems like [01:10:30] hiring, maybe less so the AI of it, but you certainly have, [01:10:35] it’s, it’s, it’s a, when you’ve got true product market fit. And [01:10:40] as I think Mark Andrewson famously said, you product market fit is, is the truth.
[01:10:44] Ian: [01:10:45] It’s, it’s, it’s a very [01:10:50] apparent when, when you’re there, it’s, it’s a tough road to get there. And [01:10:55] there’s, there’s a lot of, challenges on that journey, but what, once you get [01:11:00] it, you know, you walk into a customer and you don’t need to explain, you know, they, they get it. [01:11:05] They said, this is a problem.
[01:11:06] Ian: And if the pricing is [01:11:10] right, then we’re ready to move forward. And it’s, it’s a very different, it’s a very different, [01:11:15] experience than what everyone else is used to, which is, you know, waiting [01:11:20] on, on, try and get a meeting and then kind of get budget and things like that. [01:11:25] But if you, if you found a problem, and it is a big, big enough [01:11:30] problem, It’s, it’s, it’s very apparent.
[01:11:33] Charlie: I mean, in, in [01:11:35] the general criteria and say to right at the beginning of that spectr [01:11:40] when you’re sort of thinking about the success of an idea and you may have had some [01:11:45] indicators, do you think about things such as sort of market demands, the competition in the space, [01:11:50] how scalable the solution is?
[01:11:52] Charlie: Anything like that?
[01:11:53] Ian: Yeah, I think it’s important to, [01:11:55] right from the get go to, to, to plan for victory, you know, and therefore, as a result is [01:12:00] to create a company which is designed to scale. And, and make sure [01:12:05] that, the, it is important to, to find, to, to turn what is your [01:12:10] kernel value. When I gave the, the example I on about the, the company rhythm [01:12:15] where we realized our con, our core value.
[01:12:18] Ian: Wasn’t doing the whole thing was [01:12:20] finding a specific part where we could focus on. So if you early on in your idea can [01:12:25] identify what your kernel value, like in your proof of concept, you show that to the [01:12:30] customers, if you can identify that is, and then I suppose outsource everything else, or like, [01:12:35] find, two performance or anything else, just focus on that kernel value.[01:12:40]
[01:12:40] Ian: That is, is, is, is itself is, is step one is that you [01:12:45] found something that people want and you, and, and, and you, and you. Focus on [01:12:50] that and then, and build around that, that, that core starting [01:12:55] block.
[01:12:55] Thomas: It’s like, I want to add like Charlie, you and I had this conversation, I [01:13:00] think half a year ago, for a particular product.
[01:13:03] Thomas: I remember that where [01:13:05] we, we, we know, we know there’s market demand, we see it all around us, and then we actually [01:13:10] started to push it towards, potential buyers and, and we found that we’re [01:13:15] actually too early. Like, we found that, that, and to the point where we were [01:13:20] like, okay, well, you know what, like, we’re going to leave this for now.
[01:13:22] Thomas: We know it’s a good product, but we’re going to leave this for now because it’s, [01:13:25] it’s too early. But the market, the competition and from a scalable perspective, [01:13:30] all said, yes. It just, we couldn’t validate it with the customers because the customers [01:13:35] didn’t see the value for it, where I think the rest of our industry.
[01:13:38] Thomas: Did see the value for it, [01:13:40] but not at this, this moment in time. Right.
[01:13:44] Charlie: That’s just [01:13:45] being too early. I think this is the last piece on that on, on this, which [01:13:50] Tommy’s you’ve kind of nicely segwayed into is how unique does your value proposition [01:13:55] have to be? Do you, should you be, it, does it have to be completely.
[01:14:01] Charlie: [01:14:00] Because I see you’ve done sort of both brand new, faster, [01:14:05] smarter, cheaper, which, which makes more sense or which was easier in your [01:14:10] experience?
[01:14:11] Ian: Well, I think that, it’s, the value proposition has to be [01:14:15] sufficient that it gets a, a buyer to want to, change from [01:14:20] either current incumbent or to buy a new service.
[01:14:23] Ian: And, and. And [01:14:25] it’s, it’s down to their own cost economics. And so one of the, the purchase that I have found to be [01:14:30] particularly successful is, is you know, you create a, so [01:14:35] it’s a basic, you create a spreadsheet and you outline [01:14:40] what it is that you’re doing and how it can add substantial value to what they’re [01:14:45] currently doing.
[01:14:45] Ian: It’s obviously, it was a B2B, B2B, same to enterprise. If you can [01:14:50] demonstrate that, you could provide a, a, eight or 10X [01:14:55] improvement on their current. business and you provide, you know, create a spreadsheet, have them work [01:15:00] with you for that. Then you’ve given your champion in that organization a [01:15:05] strong, tool to demonstrate your value proposition because it’s, it’s, [01:15:10] it’s, they have contributed to it.
[01:15:11] Ian: It’s their figures and they can see how [01:15:15] this will make a difference. So that’s on a B2B in terms of like, how do you create. [01:15:20] a compelling, value. You actually need to work with the customer [01:15:25] to illustrate how that your, your product can make a difference. On a B2C [01:15:30] scale, it’s a bit harder because. But, [01:15:35] but I suppose you can, you know, the, the way to do it there is, is to test on, on a, on a subset [01:15:40] of, of users and, and determine if there’s some sort of [01:15:45] standard metrics around, around SaaS based product, like know the churn rate [01:15:50] and, an uptake and lifetime value and things like customer [01:15:55] acquisition costs, things like that.
[01:15:56] Ian: Those are some of the metrics that are well understood in the marketplace that you can [01:16:00] use. To validate whether you’re on the right track. And you have a [01:16:05] sufficient, you need valuable position that the customers keep on coming back and buy.
[01:16:09] Charlie: All right. So [01:16:10] we’re now onto the final segment of the show.
[01:16:12] Charlie: And this is where we ask Ian, [01:16:15] if you didn’t have the bags, the big bank accounts, if you didn’t have the [01:16:20] reputation, or the phone book, the black book that you have, all the people that you’ve [01:16:25] worked with that know and love you, but you are starting again with a knowledge in your [01:16:30] head. What would be the top five personal startup desert island [01:16:35] essentials that you would bring with you if you’re going to start your journey back again?
[01:16:38] Ian: I suppose, if, [01:16:40] if it’s an, an idea that I’m really [01:16:45] excited about, I’d like Dilly to find a great co founder. The, there are many, [01:16:50] okay companies sort off as a solo funder with an idea. If you are a technical founder, it’s [01:16:55] not easier ’cause technical analysts can stretch to building the business themselves.
[01:16:59] Ian: So if you [01:17:00] are like a non-technical founder, it’s a bit harder to do. I am. By, [01:17:05] by my background, I’m not a technical person. I’m a, so I would, key for me is to [01:17:10] find a strong technical founder, co founder of this. And so that, [01:17:15] that would be important for me. But everyone’s, you know, know yourself.
[01:17:19] Ian: Okay. If you [01:17:20] know what you’re good at. And in my case. I know I’m not good at tech. So I, in terms of [01:17:25] like building code. So I need to find someone who is excellent at building code. [01:17:30] And the sheer, perseverance around [01:17:35] that. There’s a friend of mine called Chris Barton. He was the founder of, of Shazam.
[01:17:39] Ian: And he was saying, [01:17:40] he described to me when he spent literally months. Talking to [01:17:45] the very, very best people in the whole area of technology around, [01:17:50] audio technology and found this absolute stunning guy, Avery [01:17:55] Chan and basically Avery and him work, work on another sort of co founders. And that’s [01:18:00] example of like taking the time to find the best co founder to build a great [01:18:05] company.
[01:18:05] Charlie: Okay. Number one. Good, find, find a good co founder. Number two? [01:18:10]
[01:18:10] Ian: Well, this is now down to yourself is, is, is have a, the right [01:18:15] mindset, constant element of being curious and learning. Like there’s the [01:18:20] idea is that you should always be hungry to keep, learning [01:18:25] from others and, and, and try not to, as much as you’re passionate about your [01:18:30] idea, not to, So you take it in a way, which is you get [01:18:35] to corroborate, you got to try to think about as, as a, as independent, [01:18:40] activity that needs to be looked at rationally and, and, and thought of as [01:18:45] a almost like, as I said, a sort of scientific method that a experiment, a hypothesis needs to be [01:18:50] tested.
[01:18:50] Ian: And so having the right mindset. It’s absolutely critical to ensure that [01:18:55] you have the best chance of success. You don’t get carried away with the idea. [01:19:00] You take a rigorous step by step approach to evaluating it so you can get [01:19:05] the best chance for customers to buy the product.
[01:19:08] Charlie: Number three. [01:19:10]
[01:19:10] Ian: Probably, perseverance.
[01:19:11] Ian: I mentioned that, you know, that, if you can, it’s, it’s [01:19:15] rare that you launch a product with the right, first time, [01:19:20] get a good market approach and the right, the customers set and, and, [01:19:25] and, and the right product. So if you can have the [01:19:30] ability to prepare yourself for a long journey, it [01:19:35] is.
[01:19:36] Ian: Journey of both highest and extreme lows. [01:19:40] But they are, it is, it is, if this is what you want to do and again, you have to be passionate, you have to [01:19:45] really believe in this, it’s, so often, you know, the [01:19:50] whole startup thing is somewhat, viewed as, as, as an amazing [01:19:55] experience, but it is, but it’s, it’s challenging and, and, and, You have to often say that you have [01:20:00] to put your family to be understanding what you want to go through.
[01:20:04] Ian: It’s, [01:20:05] it’s, it’s, it, it can be hard, you know, in terms of, of, of [01:20:10] not, it doesn’t always work out. And so, so you have to be able to get yourself [01:20:15] mentally prepared for adventure. And I always feel as part of that is to be [01:20:20] as much as. As, as, as mentally fit, as physically fit. So being like, [01:20:25] keeping yourself active, there’s, there’s a lot of burnout.
[01:20:28] Ian: Now there’s, you [01:20:30] hear about people talking a lot about mental health issues around, being a startup entrepreneur. [01:20:35] So try to find a way to, break away [01:20:40] and think, I mean, you hear about someone like Warren Buffett, who is a brilliant investor. [01:20:45] He spends a large part of his day. So just thinking, [01:20:50] reading, thinking about interesting business ideas and knowing when a, [01:20:55] when a white business appears in front of him, he’s ready to make an immediate decision.
[01:20:58] Ian: He’s ready to put like hundreds of millions of [01:21:00] dollars down because he spent the time to read, understand the market. So [01:21:05] don’t try to fill up every hour of every second of your day, just because it [01:21:10] makes you feel busy. Try to really sort of have the, have the ability to, to, to [01:21:15] think, so there’s a lot to that in terms of just the right mindset.
[01:21:19] Ian: And then [01:21:20] having the, the structure and the person they’re acting.
[01:21:23] Charlie: Absolutely, I [01:21:25] felt there was something one of my old mentors, one of my old CEOs used to say, which was [01:21:30] a startup journey on average about seven to 10 years and having that [01:21:35] mentality in your head as you go into it puts you ahead of most of the [01:21:40] game.
[01:21:40] Ian: Yeah.
[01:21:40] Charlie: Knowing that it’s going to be long means that your expectations, the mother of all [01:21:45] sadness and misery, are set correctly. And you know, [01:21:50] if you’ve got a three year timeline, a two month setback is much more emotionally charged than [01:21:55] if you think you’ve got a seven to 10 year timeline. It’s
[01:21:57] Ian: so true.
[01:21:58] Ian: Things take a lot longer. [01:22:00] It’s a lot longer than we all expect and everyone creates in their, their [01:22:05] spreadsheet around revenue growth. And they all have this hockey stick and it’s all like, within funny enough, all [01:22:10] within five years. Well, three years, if you decide not to do a [01:22:15] five year, projection, all of them have this like takeoff after [01:22:20] end of year one, year two, when
[01:22:24] Charlie: they’ve got the [01:22:25] only horse and horses, adage when they’re doing their commercial plans.
[01:22:29] Charlie: And next time, [01:22:30] this time, next year, Rodney, we’ll both be millionaires.[01:22:35]
[01:22:36] Charlie: I think we’ve all, Thomas and myself have also seen, [01:22:40] Commercial plans or projections and you’re like, why? And the answer is [01:22:45] because it feels good [01:22:50]
[01:22:50] Thomas: or how well,
[01:22:53] Charlie: sorry. So on your thirds, [01:22:55] what would be your third desert islands? My fourth actually, maybe having [01:23:00] a,
[01:23:01] Ian: Kindle. Now, that is because [01:23:05] it can give you access to hundreds of books to read [01:23:10] on your desert island, if that’s where you are, obviously the power source as well, but having a, [01:23:15] a Kindle is having access to other, other, [01:23:20] other people’s experience and knowledge and just keep on trying to keep up to date with [01:23:25] trends.
[01:23:25] Ian: Try to assume that they’re there and there’s, there’s, [01:23:30] that you don’t know all the answers at all. And the fact that you, [01:23:35] need to keep on, keep on learning. And a Kindle is a [01:23:40] fantastic, easy solution to do that. And then I, I assume a Kindle is, I think you can take them, and, [01:23:45] and the glare, the sunlight on the desert island beach, you were able to see a little clearer than you [01:23:50] would if you took a tablet or something like that.
[01:23:53] Thomas: You seem to have experience [01:23:55] with, with that.
[01:23:57] Charlie: Maybe beaches, I imagine. [01:24:00] The fifth, sorry, the fifth. Yeah,
[01:24:04] Ian: it’s similar. [01:24:05] There’s, there’s, there’s so many great tools out there. There’s podcasts. I mentioned the one that the founders [01:24:10] podcast is, attending, events. I mean, I, I’m [01:24:15] constantly going to, [01:24:20] meetups, you know, in the evening about new topics, new, new businesses, to try and [01:24:25] like learn about things that I’m not, I’m completely, no knowledge about, [01:24:30] but it’s, it’s, I think the most, you see it actually in academia right now, the most interesting [01:24:35] areas in academia right now, aren’t in this sort of vertical, So, [01:24:40] sort of faculties, it’s actually the crossover.
[01:24:41] Ian: It’s like, chemistry and physics or, [01:24:45] or, or psychology and, and, and, and, and sort of [01:24:50] chemistry as well. That it’s, it’s fascinating. These, these, these are the crossover [01:24:55] points in different, in, in, in different parts of, of, of studding. [01:25:00] And that’s what you don’t get. If you just simply focus on just the [01:25:05] registry.
[01:25:05] Ian: So like learning from other industries, trying to think about things in an orthogonal way, which [01:25:10] is, and that means getting out there. That means maybe [01:25:15] catching up on the latest Netflix episode for that particular night and going out for a, a [01:25:20] meetup on something which is very different. It could be us on quantum [01:25:25] computing, which is, you know, that seems to be on the cusp of our next hype cycle.[01:25:30]
[01:25:30] Charlie: Well, that’s brilliant. I can only thank you for your time, Ian, and spending the [01:25:35] time with us. Where can our audience find you, connect with you, or even [01:25:40] apply to Infrastructure Ventures?
[01:25:41] Ian: Yeah. So with Infrastructure Ventures, we’re out there practically finding people. [01:25:45] So we, we, we don’t really have, it’s a small, you will come, we, [01:25:50] we, we use our, our, our data tool to find people, but you always go [01:25:55] to, we do take some people who come over the Transom and such, and that is that, we infrastructure.[01:26:00]
[01:26:00] Ian: ventures. That’s, that’s the site there. I myself, we reached on [01:26:05] LinkedIn. That’s probably the best way to reach me. Also, Those are probably the best ways. [01:26:10] I’m constantly kept up, up with those two.
[01:26:12] Charlie: Well, thank you for your time today and Have [01:26:15] a good rest of your day in your meetings. Okay. Thank you
[01:26:17] Ian: so much.
[01:26:18] Ian: All right. Bye. Thank you.
[01:26:19] Charlie: [01:26:20] [01:26:25] [01:26:30] [01:26:35] Goodbye
